having issues with DH being circ'd - Page 7

[Acksiom]

Originally Posted by twins10705

If ANY GIVEN WOMAN had a low-risk, correctable deformity that made sex painful and just plain crap for her dp/dh -- how many people would be telling her dp/dh to just grit his teeth and live with it??

Plenty. This is post-femelitist north america, remember?

Originally Posted by twins10705

The double standard here is beyond sickening. blah.

What double standard would that be?

[Pandora114]

The double standard that only men are allowed to enjoy sexual intercourse but women have to pretty much STFU and GBTW...

You know the whole jock culture of "YEAH MAN!!! you scored!!! RAAAH!" vs "OMG She had sex with HOW many guys? OMG what a SLUT!!!" Combined with the "man she's so frigid, there's gotta be SOMETHING wrong with her to not like my hunk of man meat"

the whole men are the sexual agressors vs women are the sexual passive..

Honestly I dont get it either..but : I guess it is prevelant. I know I've been called a many nasty name for my promiscuity, but a male who was equally sexually promiscuous was given high fives..

Double standard one way double standard the other...life is full of em..and it stinks.

[Acksiom]

Originally Posted by Pandora114

The double standard that only men are allowed to enjoy sexual intercourse but women have to pretty much STFU and GBTW...

Pretty much dead and gone in the western world, and I don't think that's what she meant, either.

Originally Posted by Pandora114

You know the whole jock culture of "YEAH MAN!!! you scored!!! RAAAH!" vs "OMG She had sex with HOW many guys? OMG what a SLUT!!!"

No, actually, I don't, because the "jock culture" in fact tends to categorize sluttiness as a relative positive. It's the "princess culture" that tends to negatively characterize female promiscuity. And again, I don't think that's what she meant.

Originally Posted by Pandora114

Combined with the "man she's so frigid, there's gotta be SOMETHING wrong with her to not like my hunk of man meat"

Since comparatively no one demonstrates giving a crap about how good it was for the man ITFP, that's actually a double standard in the opposite direction. And yet again, I don't think that's what she meant.

Originally Posted by Pandora114

the whole men are the sexual agressors vs women are the sexual passive..

That's not a double standard; that's an empirical observation. And still yet again etc.

Originally Posted by Pandora114

Honestly I dont get it either..but : I guess it is prevelant.

I'm a serious and experienced observer and analyst of such matters, and I don't just guess to the contrary; I actively assert it.

Originally Posted by Pandora114

I know I've been called a many nasty name for my promiscuity, but a male who was equally sexually promiscuous was given high fives..

Which was likely due in large part to a highly positive value being placed upon your sexual worth and integrity compared to a negative one being placed upon those of said male. Again, actually a double standard in the opposite direction.

And once more yet still again etc.

[aira]

Um, guys?

Can't we all agree that what we are talking about here is a maiming of both genders' sexual health by the mutilation of a man's genitals? I don't think it has to be a contest about who's got it worse, or an only-one-has-it-bad situation in order to accurately define the problem.

Just to weigh in my opinion, I think the circed men have it worst of all but can't possibly see that because they don't have a reference to compare!!! We who love them and attach our lives to theirs take on their problems like our own - in every area of life - and in this case we are the ones who can feel it most and say "Hey, this is a damn big problem!"

I don't want to speak for twins10705, but my interpretation of her point was that men who are maimed - **(and are also experiencing sub-optimal sex but don't even realize it!!! so don't forget we're all victims on the same side here)** - are the ones who can fix this. But because they can not acknowledge their impairment they don't.

That leaves us a bit powerless to do anything about the problem, and so it comes across feeling like, since the man thinks all is well, no action gets taken to better the couple's experience. We women become sexual martyrs to appease a man we love who won't look at his mutilation with complete honesty.

Then add common and not-altogether-frowned-upon terms like "hitting on her", "banging her", and "scoring", etc... and it starts to be a picture of women as objects of gratification on a general scale.

Now it doesn't escape me that this would be a defensive behavior and maybe a collective mourning of what men have lost. Boys who have issues with their mothers - and what boy wouldn't have an issue with mother handing him over to a knife-wielding perv - become men with issues with women. I don't see pointing fingers about who's lot is worse or casting blame is going to help define the scope of this problem.

Aksiom, if you're pretty sure what she meant, why did you ask? Were you just baiting?

[twins10705]

Originally Posted by Acksiom

Plenty. This is post-femelitist north america, remember?



What double standard would that be?

Ha. Given your first response, I'm thinking you meant that question in a rhetorical sense merely adding exclamation to your opinion, so...here's my short response:

Until you have been on the receiving end of many a tautly stretched, mangled penis battering ram and jack hammered into a sore red mess on a daily basis for years then told by male and female alike that you should stick it out, use more lube, get some meds, maybe something wrong with you, you must not be in love etc...until you have lived *my* reality, that is, I don't expect you to understand and I don't care if you agree or not.

Unless you have some workable theory that involves a large percentage of men in this country faking their ejaculations(), walking away from sex unfulfilled with red swollen penii, and being told that this is how things are supposed to be -- what is your point?

[aira]

Well, I content that circed men do walk away from sex with widely varying degrees of unfulfillment... But that since no individual man can be aware of that (they have no other experiences to compare, and they aren't the ones with the excrutiating pain), they just don't want us to say that things are bad. Then they don't have to acknowledge - on a personal level - the atrocity of it all.

[twins10705]

.

[aira]

Originally Posted by twins10705

Aira --I agree with you. I probably should have clarified, by "unfulfilled" in that sense I meant simply "no orgasm".

Certainly. And also without all the pain in most cases I know of.

We are the squeaky wheels here. But grease ain't gonna fix it.

So instead some would distract with arguements about who has it worse. Like it matters... Only seeing each other with compassion will fix this. Others would tell us to just smile and not make waves. Then there are those that claim it's all just offensive and that we are bad wives putting down our poor victimized partners - just another more shaming method of saying STFU...

[twins10705]

Originally Posted by aira

We are the squeaky wheels here. But grease ain't gonna fix it.

I love it!

[MysteryMama]

Originally Posted by karen1968

I ducked into this thread a couple of days ago, and quickly ducked out again. I was so offended, for some reason, that women would so actively think of sleeping with another man just because their husbands were circ'd, and I felt like I should just stay out of it. But I couldn't stop thinking about it and felt like I had to come back here and post my thoughts.

Please know that I am firmly and have been for over 10 years.

IMO, it is as much or more about the PERSON as it is about the PENIS.

I haven't run in to any posts that say anyone is 'actively thinking of sleeping with another man', but I'm having a hard time figuring out why it would offend you personally that someone you have never met would think of cheating on someone else you have never met. Do you somehow see this as a crime against you? What does it have to do with you at all that you would be offended? Not trying to be an ass, just sincerely confused.

WHile I would NEVER consider having sexual relations with another man, it's kind of a big deal to me. I don't expect everyone to understand... maybe sex is not as important to you as it is to me. I like sex daily, I liked pregnant sex up until the very day I delivered, I broke the 6 week pp rule and was resuming my sex life after 3 weeks. I know that a marriage is about the person not the penis, but sex IS about the penis!

That being said, I just can't help but wonder what it would be like if DH was intact. I can't help but to be curious about what sex is like as it's intended to be. I'm sorry if that offends anyone...

I'm 25 and have been sexually active since I was 14. When I was younger, sex was sometimes painful... chafing, irritation, general soreness... but as I matured sexually and gained experience that changed for me. I would say around the time I turned 17 sex was no longer painful and became much more enjoyable. Now I orgasm on a regular basis (not ALWAYS, but most of the time) and sex is never painful, even though DH has a very tight circ and is huge. Still, I know what it's like to have unfullfilling uncomfortable sex, and I have to say after reading all these posts I worry that when I get older something will change and sex will become not so pleasureable for me, like it has for some pp's. I can only imagine how I'll feel about DH being circ'd then if I have some issues with it now and the sex is pretty good.

[TigerTail]

TOTALLY excellent points made there, Aira & twins.

At the risk of going slightly OT again here, I just wanted to add that I have yet to hear of a intact man ending up with a raw penis covered with micro-tears from masturbating (even with lube). But pretty darn common for circ'd guys.

(Yes, during phone sex at a hundred & twenty bucks an hour, guys shared their circ status, whether their penises got sore from masturbating, & heard my philosophical ruminations about genital mutilation. There was much more candor then with their therapists. Not one man was ever offended by my sincere 'I'm sorry' when they described their cut penises. Curious, yes. No one was angry. I think on some level, even the most pro-circ man can acknowledge that a wrong was done to him, when approached with empathy by someone with no personal stake in the matter. It's common sense.)

PS You guys thought it was all a bunch of grunting & "ooh, yeah, baby' , didn't you? Yeah, the unimaginitive ones did that. Smart women got requested. There was a lot more geisha gifted-conversationalist stuff to it than you'd imagine.

PPS Do I get Brownie points for doing all this intactivism in the 80s, when it was pretty much just me, Marilyn, & Mothering?

[Pandora114]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

At the risk of going slightly OT again here, I just wanted to add that I have yet to hear of a intact man ending up with a raw penis covered with micro-tears from masturbating (even with lube). But pretty darn common for circ'd guys.

Umm..well..I dont think my DH's windex experiment counts does it???

:

[TigerTail]

No ma'am, that falls in the 'foreign irritating substance applied to mucosal skin' fetish subcategory.

(Pssss, don't try the Chinese hot oil, either.)

[Pandora114]

Acctually it was a dare and he was 16...

Same with the tiger balm experiment..

>.> He tried puppetry but for some reason it just wont work for him..

[TigerTail]

If you use Tiger Balm before bed, *wash your hands well before you fall asleep*. That's ALL I have to say about THAT.

[phatchristy]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

At the risk of going slightly OT again here, I just wanted to add that I have yet to hear of a intact man ending up with a raw penis covered with micro-tears from masturbating (even with lube). But pretty darn common for circ'd guys.

(

I don't think that it is "off topic" either...I have to tell you that here DH has not just gotten the "micro-tears" -- frankly I would call them skin splits. There are actual scabs that he gets from masturbation experiences. Sigh. So sad! He even told me, in the beginning of the restoration process that just that little skin he first gained that "masturbation was no longer painful." He thought that it was supposed to be like that...a mixture of pleasure and pain. He thought that was NORMAL!

He has also told me that sex has also been painful for him on many occasions...which, honestly he NEVER TOLD ME BEFORE. When I started asking questions about it, I learned way more than I wanted to know. Sigh.

My main issues with him are that I tend to dry out eventually from the long strokes he takes (he has to jackhammer or he can't O...) and the roughness. During my last pregnant I had sex one night, woke up the next morning to use the toilet to see a huge amount of blood when I wiped. Needless to say, I was freaked out. I went in to make a special trip to see the mw, had to have an emergency u/s, etc. Just imagine the stress. The midwife then just assumed it was "rough sex" and told me to spoon and not let him do the deep strokes so he wouldn't hit the cervix .

It's so sad to me that all of this could have been prevented...

[kldliam]

My husband is circ'd too. Fortunately a previous partner of mine (from Venezuela) was intact. We were together for 5 years. It really is quite a different expierence. I am saddend that my husband and I were both robbed.

Knowing the difference doesn't make me feel any better, it only makes it worse in a way....I love my husband and I wish he/we had been spared. :

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

People always get prickly when sexuality is discussed candidly, & it's quadrupled when exposing the truth about circumcision.

I am not willing to shut generations of American women back up in the closet because the subject makes some uncomfortable. If it doesn't apply to you, wonderful. What are you adding to the soup, & why?

(This seems to me like some disinterested person going to the 'Surviving Abuse' forum to tell everyone there to 'just get over it'. How dismissive; how patronizing.)

Lastly, if just ONE person is saved from circumcision by reading the brutally honest accounts of what this industry, this sham, this collective societal nightmare has done to women; if one lurker out there is weeping in relief realizing that it's not her, I really don't give much of a rat's hinder if others not directly involved feel a little squicky reading about it. I'm not trying to be snarky or rude (really!), merely direct. People get squicked out seeing people nurse in public, too. Deal.

:

Absolutely! I want to give all you mamas a big It doesn't apply to me (having never been with a circumcised man), but I think it's much better to discuss these things than to keep it all hidden. I wish that every mother who wants to circumcise her baby because of his future gfs and dw would be able to read and understand what you mamas have written here. This thread (minus a few posts...) is such a testimony to why circumcision is WRONG and really brings to light the double standards that make WOMEN feel responsible for everything that's wrong in their sex lives.

And it's NOT something that inherently cannot be helped... if it was openly talked about and not so taboo then more men would consider restoration which would help immensely. Not all would consider it, but more would and that would be a start

more 's to you all!

love and peace.

[mika85]

Originally Posted by phatchristy

During my last pregnant I had sex one night, woke up the next morning to use the toilet to see a huge amount of blood when I wiped. Needless to say, I was freaked out. I went in to make a special trip to see the mw, had to have an emergency u/s, etc. Just imagine the stress. The midwife then just assumed it was "rough sex" and told me to spoon and not let him do the deep strokes so he wouldn't hit the cervix .

It's so sad to me that all of this could have been prevented...

omg!! the same exact thing happened to me!! but i started bleeding like crazy while we were doing it. and i mean, it was a HUGE amount of blood, it looked like someone had been murdered. we were soooo freaked out, and went to the hospital b/c we thought something was wrong and i'd have to have the baby that night! i had just never heard of anything like that, and i was reading preggo books from cover to cover. it just ended up being more on the embarassing side and they told him to go easy on me next time. it's sad to think that such a freakout wouldn't have happened if he didn't have to pound the hell outta me every time. :

[Mom2Natalya]

Originally Posted by jeannie81

i have pretty much always been anti circ, but everyone i have ever been with (and there have been more than a few) has been circ'd. im totally commited to my DH but im having a hard time accepting the fact that i will never experience sex with an intact man. im not going to run out and hunt down an intact man and have an affair or anything like that, but i have been lamenting this issue for a while now and i just can't seem to totally get over the... dissapointment, for lack of a better word. i have mentioned to DH how im curious about what it would be like and how much i would love for him to consider foreskin restoration, but he refuses to consider it, which doesn't surprise me at all- if it was up to him DS would be circ'd! in my mind i just KNOW it would be SO WONDERFUL. don't get me wrong, i have always enjoyed sex with DH, i just somehow know it would be even better if he was intact. sigh. anyone have any suggestions how i can just forget about it?

I have had sex with intact and cut men, about 50/50 actually. . . and there's really not much difference to be honest. You don't notice the foreskin so much because as soon as the man is erect, the foreskin naturally pulls back. There's some nice friction, but nothing that you can't get from angle and position in a cut men.
Cheer up!

Hugs!!