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Judaism and origins ~ spinoff thread - Page 4

post #61 of 105
Thread Starter 
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post #62 of 105
Thread Starter 
This post was left behind on the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by merpk
And I repeat, as I've posted before: The fact that many Hebrews/Jews were idol worshippers and were not behaving as the Torah instructs does *not* mean that Judaism/the Hebrew belief system was ever nonmonotheistic.

It just means lots of Jews/Hebrews were behaving badly. By Torah law, that is.
post #63 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL View Post
Well, I don't know if it's the first thing, but you probably meant that as a figure of speech.
Huh?

Quote:
I actually do know that there are hundreds if not thousands of rabbinical disagreements on record. Biblical interpretation is so hard. I don't know how people can decided what is what. And as the world changes the Torah changes. You can see that in the written Torah as is. Newer books reinterpret the older ones. The culture changes from herders to agriculturalists to city dwellers that trade with large empires. Other cultures/ traditions, languages, calendars, science and cosmologies enter into the mix. The theology develops. Can't be helped.
That is just it, The torah doesn't change and there was no "interpretation". There was oral torah, that they were starting to forget. What you wrote has nothing to do with judaism.




I am quite sure I never said I don't study, as I do. Just not the day before a 7 day festival.
post #64 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird View Post
Huh?



That is just it, The torah doesn't change and there was no "interpretation". There was oral torah, that they were starting to forget. What you wrote has nothing to do with judaism.
I don't believe this is the case, historically. Mystically, yes. Again, I am not writing about "Judaism" as you may believe in it, per se. And I think that is about the 5th time I have said that. It is becoming tiresome.





Have fun in the sukkot! I hope the weather is good.
post #65 of 105
post #66 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL View Post
Now you are the second person to scold me after I already conceded that point. I am sorry for my mistake. :
i apologize also. I did not see your concession.
post #67 of 105
I'm not casting aspersions on you DaryLLL. I'm posting in the wrong thread! :
post #68 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird View Post
No. It didn't. The wanting not to be different from the people around them, and to be "modern" and not "backward" caused the creation of the reform movement. The "move" towards a more traditional movement caused the birth of conservativeism.

Thanks for that clarification (jeez, it seems so obvious now) I was always curious as my family is a mix of reform and conservative Jews and I never knew who became which from where. Now it all falls into line.
post #69 of 105
I think I love DaryLLL
post #70 of 105
Thread Starter 
Oh! thanks!
post #71 of 105
I'm fairly abstruse in this forum for pretty good reasons. But I like reading your posts that cut right to the chase and don't mince words or ideas.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
post #72 of 105
Like when she says Jesus didn't exist? Or Xianity is Paganism and minor parts of Judaism? or only when she disagrees with the currently practicing Jews?
post #73 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL View Post
Which Temple? 1st (Solomonic) or second (built by Ezra's contemporaries)? Or 3rd (Greek style Herodian)? Who was learning "Judaism" properly in the "temple" when Asherah stood there and male sacred prostitutes lived there? Who authorized that?
Is there any physical evidence for either of these assertions that there was an image of A' in the Temple more often that not, as I have seen you claim before, or that there were male sacred prostitutes there? I am asking about primary sources or actual physical evidence, not comparative religion theories extrapolating from other Cannanite practices. Please refer me; I am interested.
post #74 of 105
B"Y, you don't know that during BH"M times there was both corruption and A"Z practiced? We were never perfect.
post #75 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedBird View Post
B"Y, you don't know that during BH"M times there was both corruption and A"Z practiced? We were never perfect.
Of course I know that. Maybe I need to brush up on my 'Nach, but I was not aware that that bad times outweighed the good, so to speak. I am feeling pretty embarrassed here, because I can't remember exactly where I read this (that there were more "good" years than "bad"). Just to take a quick example (of course this is only going off of Tanach), when the Temple was first built, it was pure then, was it not? I know there were problems with Solomon's many wives and their deities, but I thought that spared the Temple, at least. From a "historic" POV, wouldn't A' being in the Temple (CV"S) be more likely at the beginning than at other times, since the assertion is that monotheism is a more recent development?
post #76 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaverdi View Post
Like when she says Jesus didn't exist? Or Xianity is Paganism and minor parts of Judaism? or only when she disagrees with the currently practicing Jews?
Pretty much when she discusses critical readings and textual history. I have no problem with good historical and textual evidence that runs counter to my beliefs, and I appreciate well-expressed critical thought.

Trust me, I've heard plenty of people say Jesus didn't exist! It's the approach that seeks a common ground through methodology accessible to all sides that I find delightful, not necessarily the conclusions reached. A good historical or textual conclusion is not necessarily true, but it is good mental exercise. Truth cannot be found in argument. If it could, wiser people than I would have found it in argument long ago.

In many ways--such as forms of worship--Christianity *is* paganism with "minor parts of Judaism." In many other ways it is far more. I take no issue with the idea that historical approaches can produce evidence counter to my beliefs.

Please, also, a number of posters on this thread have pointed out the offensiveness of your equation of Orthodox Jews with "currently practicing Jews."
post #77 of 105
Excuse me, please tell me where I state that only Orthodox Jews are "currently practicing Jews"? I consider for instance Rynna, a practicing Jew, though she is not at all Orthodox. Has said so herself. I consider my agnostic friends to be practicing Jews.

I don't consider someone praying to Jesus to be a practicing Jew. Or praying to Allah. Or dancing around a may pole naked or frolicking with the Green Man. I consider them (potentially) fine people, but not practicing Jews.

Practicing Jew to me = people practicing Judaism.
post #78 of 105
Okay, so I've read back through the thread, and I see where I ask DaryLLL if she has ever been a practicing Jew. And I see where she quotes me and says I'm casting aspersions on her...and I see that I respond saying that I posted that post to the wrong thread. In which part of this thead did I say that only Orthodox Jews are currently practing Jews? I'll go read the other threads and see if I said it there.
post #79 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tie-dyed View Post

Please, also, a number of posters on this thread have pointed out the offensiveness of your equation of Orthodox Jews with "currently practicing Jews."
Huh? The only person who I saw do that in any form was Daryl.
post #80 of 105
MV, don't worry, we all can read, we all can back you up, all the jews, who are regular posters, very practicing to no practicing who fit into many lables to no lable who know that YOU never equated practicing with orthodox!
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