Talk to me about my space - Page 4

[CraftyGardenerTN]

Myspace no no

Myspace is no place for anyone under 16...maybe even 18. I cannot believe the stuss they allow on there. You can search their friends list and everything else but you have no way of knowing what groups they are visiting on there. Their are ones meant for pot smokers, groing pot, having sex...you name it and I have come across it on myspace. In a large percent of kids curiosity will come before what Mom and Dad taught them. There have been several cases on myspace as well where older men were pretending to be teens. So you may check thier friends list but an old pervert may look like a playful teen.

Kelly

[moonfirefaery]

Well, we obviously just have a different perspective when it comes to a few issues on child-rearing, and I really doubt you and I will agree on these things.

I feel that I can be informed without knowing my kids passwords, checking their browser history, and letting them have internet access in their room

I imagine this was true as well of the parents whos children have been kidnapped, abducted, or sexually assaulted because of Myspace--or who have almost had those things happen. I'm not saying it's impossible to keep your children safe without checking browser history and whatnot, but I do think the guarantee is a little more concrete. Trust is abstract.

[mamaofthreecats]

i have a myspace and i don't think that younger teenagers should use it. my cousin is fifteen and she has her profile set to private, and people can't even send her messages unless they have her email address. i've noticed that she only goes on there to talk to her family and friends. however, not all younger people are as responsible. i've gotten a lot of male from freaks.

i suppose if you're a parent and your kid has a myspace, don't hesitate to invade their privacy---it is a public profile after all. i saw a thing on tv where a woman pretended to be a new girl at school and was really spying on her son on myspace---that seemed to work.

[mamaofthreecats]

as far as cameras---that's just weird. i understand that they seem fun and all to teenagers, but it seems more bad than good comes from those things. i wouldn't let my son have one, that's for sure.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

I'm not saying it's impossible to keep your children safe without checking browser history and whatnot, but I do think the guarantee is a little more concrete. Trust is abstract.

I can't speak for unschoolnMa, but I believe that the best way to keep my daughter safe is to create a relationship of mutual trust. I think that letting her know that I found her untrustworthy, especially without cause, would significantly decrease her trust in me... and if she doesn't trust me, perhaps she won't ask for my help or advice, or talk to me about her life and her problems, and then I would be a lot more worried about her making bad choices.

I suppose it really does require a paradigm shift, though... if you don't have that kind of relationship with your child, I imagine it's hard to imagine not feeling that you have to check up on him.

Dar

[Strong Mama]

I suppose it really does require a paradigm shift, though... if you don't have that kind of relationship with your child, I imagine it's hard to imagine not feeling that you have to check up on him.

I agree 100% with this statement.

As a child I had no curfew, no boundaries as a teen etc. I was always home at 11pm, I did not drink or do drugs or even have sex, etc until I was older and when I did I told my parents.

On the other hand, my peers who had these curfews, parents calling them every 5 mins, etc...were really WILD. Not saying this is the norm for all children who are supervised more closely, but it seems to be the case while I was a teen.

[mystik_lilac]

I didn't read all the replies on this thread. But I do have a few suggestions.
I am a moderator in a chatroom on another forum. We have a lot of teenagers come in and some of the things they say would just amaze you. I don't believe that their parents have any idea of the personality these kids have on the internet. We have a 16 year old girl, that has pictures of herself in her gallery that are legal...but not appropriate. I tried to talk to her about this as a parent. Tell her she shouldn't have pictures like that...she's asking for trouble. Unfortunately, our kids are growing up too fast.
I would definately pay attention to who they are speaking to and what they say about themselves. It is very important that they don't give out any personal information. While most teens say they would never say anything about where they live, they may accidentally do it. For example: Say your teenage son says he lives in Missouri. Then on another day mentions living in a college town. Then on another day mentioning that he lives close to a grocery store. An online predator could definately put pieces together and narrow down where that teen might live.
I think its just an overall good idea to be aware of what they're doing online, while still respecting their privacy. It has to be a two way street.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by Dar

I can't speak for unschoolnMa, but I believe that the best way to keep my daughter safe is to create a relationship of mutual trust. I think that letting her know that I found her untrustworthy, especially without cause, would significantly decrease her trust in me... and if she doesn't trust me, perhaps she won't ask for my help or advice, or talk to me about her life and her problems, and then I would be a lot more worried about her making bad choices.

Aww heck Dar, you can speak for me at least 90% of the time I think! I agree with all of this. I want her to be able to come to me about anything, even something she thinks she has done wrong or is embarrased about, and know that that she can find honesty and support rather than me trying to control all that she does online. She got a message from a man in his 20's asking if she'd like to meet them offline. She never even responded to him, ignored his messages, and told me about it promptly. Coolness.

I suppose it really does require a paradigm shift, though... if you don't have that kind of relationship with your child, I imagine it's hard to imagine not feeling that you have to check up on him.

ITA. If that's not the kind of stuff you already have happening it would be difficult to see how it works.

[yaM yaM]

I might have subscribed to beliefs more along the lines of coercive parenting before I became the mama of an older child.

As my firstborn grows older (and she's not yet requested a MySpace but it's only a small amount of time before she does, in my estimation), I can see that she needs my respect, trust and support more than ever. As a pre-teen, she faces not only more complex and worldly situations than when she was little, but also within her own being is a rapidly growing, strong need for independence, self-declared integrity (based on her own developing value system - which, I'm proud to say, strongly reflects the values I exposed her to in her early childhood), self-regulation, and self-reliability.

I'm well aware of the fact that I could potentially utilize my authority as parent to crack down and ask 20 questions at will. I also know the look in my daughter's eyes when I push too hard for information. So I have bent in kind. I see the laws of attraction and repulsion in action, here, because no matter how independent and head-strong she may be - she still sees me as 'mightier' sheerly because I am her mommy. I know that I felt intimidated by my parents, with very little effort on their part, well into adulthood. Heck, I'm now 35 and still find myself feeling veeery impressionable by my father (my only living parent). I think it comes down to the strong, innate inclination toward wanting our parents' love and approval.

I know from my own experience as a teen that, if pushed too far, I eventually became apathetic about my need for their approval because their control pushed me to the point of caring even more about my autonomy and the very real threat they posed to it by means of universal distrust and control. Keep in mind that I never actually DID anything as a teen to deserve that. Looking back, it was more of their preconceived notions and general attitude of 'not trusting children' that caused the most damage to our relationship. I know this because I've had to spend many years unlearning that concept.

It is not true, in my personal philosophy, that children should be automatically not-trusted, but that is, sadly, the first inclination (automatic reaction) in my mind due to my upbringing. I am proud to say, however, that I've achieved a place where I no longer react to that inclination when it comes to me. Instead, I notice it silently and smile to myself knowingly. I feel great peace from the progress I have made in this area, knowing that my children are not only receiving the benefits of my evolution of perspective, but also that they're watching me show them the way out of hell. Because, really, general distrust toward those we're most intimate with is truly a living hell.

FWIW - we are unschoolers, and my daughter has a computer and internet access in her room. And I agree with UnschoolnMa's comments regarding MySpace as a vehicle and that the issue really lies on the decision-maker and their decision-making process. I like the discussions the internet gives us the opportunity to have regarding safety and personal boundaries. In fact, in many ways, it's easier to talk about these things in the context of something I can watch with her, right there, than something that occurs when she's away from me with her friends.

[UnschoolnMa]

You have a lovely way with words May May.

[moonfirefaery]

I believe that the best way to keep my daughter safe is to create a relationship of mutual trust. I think that letting her know that I found her untrustworthy, especially without cause, would significantly decrease her trust in me... and if she doesn't trust me, perhaps she won't ask for my help or advice, or talk to me about her life and her problems, and then I would be a lot more worried about her making bad choices.

I suppose it really does require a paradigm shift, though... if you don't have that kind of relationship with your child, I imagine it's hard to imagine not feeling that you have to check up on him.

Even a child with a good relationship isn't always going to know a situation is dangerous or how to make the good choice in every situation. A statement like this suggests that every child who has been abducted, kidnapped, or sexually assaulted because of the internet have been children who didn't have a trusting relationship with their parents...when most likely the obvious was true. Now perhaps every parent of every child was neglectful or overbearing, and it was those two extremes that caused the tragedy...but I really doubt it, and I find that quite an offensive suggestion.

We have a lot of teenagers come in and some of the things they say would just amaze you.

Yeah, I seen teens acting this way as well. I imagine either their parents are extremely neglectful and careless, extremely controlling, OR just have a very trusting relationship with a child that they overestimate. It happens all of the time. Many children take freedom and trust and do good with it. Not every child does. Even on NEOPETS, a G-rated site, I see kids whose parents probably think NOTHING of them being on that site, saying things that are disgusting.

She got a message from a man in his 20's asking if she'd like to meet them offline. She never even responded to him, ignored his messages, and told me about it promptly

Would she do the same if she got a msg from a 14 year-old girl that went to her school, asking if she wanted to meet up at the mall and make friends? Because that girl could very well be a 40 year old pedophile.

[Tinas3muskateers]

Originally Posted by FEDUP

I agree 100% with this statement.

As a child I had no curfew, no boundaries as a teen etc. I was always home at 11pm, I did not drink or do drugs or even have sex, etc until I was older and when I did I told my parents.

On the other hand, my peers who had these curfews, parents calling them every 5 mins, etc...were really WILD. Not saying this is the norm for all children who are supervised more closely, but it seems to be the case while I was a teen.

Its all the kid... I had no curfew, no boundaries, etc... and I was smoking pot, taking lsd, having sex, getting into cars with strangers, and much much more... so to me that idea doesnt hold water.

I needed boundaries and no one noticed. My dad was a single father who wanted to be the good guy... My dd if given an inch will try and take a mile, she always gets caught so she shoots herself in the foot. She isnt sexually active, she isnt doing drugs or drinking but she does smoke sometimes and does like boys and kisses and all that stuff. We talk about things, she knows that I am therefor her etc but that doesnt mean she isnt going to push limits and try things that might not be best for her.

[Tinas3muskateers]

Would she do the same if she got a msg from a 14 year-old girl that went to her school, asking if she wanted to meet up at the mall and make friends? Because that girl could very well be a 40 year old pedophile.[/QUOTE]



Very good point!

[UnschoolnMa]

Would she do the same if she got a msg from a 14 year-old girl that went to her school, asking if she wanted to meet up at the mall and make friends? Because that girl could very well be a 40 year old pedophile.

Dd is an unschooler so the school thing doesn't quite work, but I get what you are saying. If that happened she would talk to me about it. She doesn't go anywhere really without talking to me about it first. She wouldn't go to the mall without checking/telling me first. (And I wouldn't leave without telling her either, interestingly enough lol.) It's just respectful and how we are. If that situation came up I would ask if she knew the girl was who she claimed to be (like as in had she seen/met her before?) and if it would be cool for me to come along to make sure things were fine, etc.

[Dar]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

Even a child with a good relationship isn't always going to know a situation is dangerous or how to make the good choice in every situation. A statement like this suggests that every child who has been abducted, kidnapped, or sexually assaulted because of the internet have been children who didn't have a trusting relationship with their parents...when most likely the obvious was true. Now perhaps every parent of every child was neglectful or overbearing, and it was those two extremes that caused the tragedy...but I really doubt it, and I find that quite an offensive suggestion.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the obvious"... however, I cannot see how my daughter could possibly be kidnapped because of the internet. Well, okay, I suppose some computer wizard guy might kind her myspace and trace our IP address and break into our ISP's records and then come here and break in while she was home alone (and for some reason the dog didn't alert or she didn't call 911) and kidnap here... but I know she's not going to go meet the "cute 14 year old boy" who IMs her without telling me, in some private place and without an adult around. She never has, and she's been online for years. Plenty of adult women meet sleazeballs on the net and get killed... I think she's about as likely to do something like this as I am, and I guess I'm comfortable with that.

Could she be kidnapped or assaulted? Sure. She wanders around our college town's downtown, rides her bike around, walks the dog... there are opportunities, and it's probably far more likely than her being kidnapped by someone she meets online. But, as with myspace, the benefits outweigh the risks for us, and she knows how to take care of herself as well as I do (and she's physically stronger, sad to say...).

I think it's typical, in our society, for teens to have fairly poor, mistrustful relationships with their parents, so much so that we find it normal. I don't find it "extreme" at all... I actually think UnschoolnMa and May May and I are the ones who are "extreme", because we do trust our kids. People joke with me all the time about how difficult teens are to parent, and what a "rough" stage it is, and then they laugh like it's a joke. I *love* parenting my teen. It's a total joy.

And yeah, what UnschoolnMa said. That's pretty much how it would play out here... and also Rain would undoubtedly ask anyone new questions about whatever group he claimed to be affiliated with (since she's also unschooled, it wouldn't be school for her either) and who he knew...

Dar

[Strong Mama]

Its all the kid... I had no curfew, no boundaries, etc... and I was smoking pot, taking lsd, having sex, getting into cars with strangers, and much much more... so to me that idea doesnt hold water.

hmmm maybe that...my dad was a single father too, but we were really close. We went to church together, sang together, he took time to read with me, go to my school functions, so that trust we had with each other ran deep. I dunno??

I guess that my son and I have that same bond. He tells me everything that I would think most 12 year old wouldnt tell their moms, but maybe he could hide stuff from me. But he def. wouldnt hide the fact that he is talking with some stranger on msn then meeting them and running off with them. I am 110% sure of this!!

[moonfirefaery]

Unschoolnma, sounds like you've got it under control.

I cannot see how my daughter could possibly be kidnapped because of the internet.

I guess you haven't read all of the news stories about children who were kidnapped because of the internet.

"Well, okay, I suppose some computer wizard guy might kind her myspace and trace our IP address and break into our ISP's records and then come here and break in while she was home alone (and for some reason the dog didn't alert or she didn't call 911) and kidnap here..."

Assuming that she gets to the phone in time--and that the police come in time, this wouldn't be a problem. Is it inevitable that she will dial 911 in time and that the police will arrive in time? And there are a LOT of computer wizard guys that can do this, btw. A lot of internet predators are VERY good with computers.

but I know she's not going to go meet the "cute 14 year old boy" who IMs her without telling me, in some private place and without an adult around"

What about a 14 year old little girl who claims to know her from somewhere? Do you think that she couldn't be kidnapped in a public place, with an adult around? Because that has happened to a lot of children as well. These people don't just go 'oh, I think I'll kidnap someone today.' They plan for weeks; they talk to each other and give each other tips. They are sick. And they are out there. And they know how to talk to children, entice them to go somewhere, and to swipe them even when the world is watching. All you have to do is turn your head for a single minute. This can happen to a teenager as easily as a toddler, even if they put up a fight. You can't put up much of a fight when someone comes right up behind you with some cloroform, then quickly pulls you out of sight of everyone else. Even grown women can be kidnapped in public.

I think she's about as likely to do something like this as I am, and I guess I'm comfortable with that.

Not all of us have perfect judgement 100% of the time, and that is true of children as well. There have been times where I have misjudged people. Now, thank goodness I wouldn't have gone to meet them, but it could have happened. It could happen to anyone.

But, as with myspace, the benefits outweigh the risks for us, and she knows how to take care of herself as well as I do

That's good. So you don't mind her accidently clicking on the link to a person's Myspace who has pictures of their penis all over it? You can play videos on myspace. You can have them load as your page does. She could get a msg from a 14 year old boy, check out his page, and before she knows it, she's seeing a video of a 14 year old boy masturbating because it loaded automatically. Of course, that could happen on any site, but it's common on Myspace, journaling sites, and other places created for adults to run into pix of teen girls in suggesting photos or pedophiles who place nudes on their pages. You get a link, you go 'who is this guy? I'll look at his page to see if I know him.' And boom, penis in your face. It's not like some random link emailed to you that could be a link to a pr0n site. It's the link to someone's Myspace. And while sure, that doesn't put anyone in danger..I don't really want my children seeing people playing with themselves on the internet because they clicked someone's picture to check out their myspace page.

I think it's typical, in our society, for teens to have fairly poor, mistrustful relationships with their parents, so much so that we find it normal.

I think that's very condescending. I don't think it's typical at all. No one has a perfect relationshp with their child. Now some relationships are better than others, but saying that 'poor' is typical feels wrong to me.

It is easy to underestimate your child and be too invasive; it's easy to overestimate your child and not be as informed as you think. I think it is very naive to believe that a child can handle any situation possible that they encounter in the world or on the internet and to always know when a situation is dangerous or out of hand. The world is not safe, and Myspace isn't like Neopets. Even here on MDC we get posts advocating things that we find offensive, don't we? Even on Neopets, kids post nasty things. However, the kind of things you can accidently run into on Myspace are a lot more disgusting.

And no matter how much I trust my son to make the right choice, I'm not going to send/allow him to go to dangerous places. I'm not going to let him drive on the freeway the day after getting his liscense or walk around in the ghetto at night. I'm not going to send him into a snake pit or a hornet's nest and just say "I trust you to handle it." To me, that's what Myspace is. There are a lot of nice folk on Myspace, but there are a lot of very savory folk on it as well. Myspace was made for adults. Children don't need to be on there withot supervision just like they don't need to meet in a bar to socialize without adults around, no matter how capable they are of telling the guy trying to get them home with him to bugger off.

[choli]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

Unschoolnma, sounds like you've got it under control.

I guess you haven't read all of the news stories about children who were kidnapped because of the internet..

They weren't kidnapped because of the internet, they were kidnapped because they made bad decisions to meet people they didn't personally know, and usually lied to their parents about it. They could (and did, pre-internet) use phone chat lines and personal ads for the same purposes.

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

Assuming that she gets to the phone in time--and that the police come in time, this wouldn't be a problem. Is it inevitable that she will dial 911 in time and that the police will arrive in time? And there are a LOT of computer wizard guys that can do this, btw. A lot of internet predators are VERY good with computers.

Can you name even ONE instance of a predator coming to someone's house to kidnap them having found the address through ISP records?

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

What about a 14 year old little girl who claims to know her from somewhere? Do you think that she couldn't be kidnapped in a public place, with an adult around? Because that has happened to a lot of children as well. These people don't just go 'oh, I think I'll kidnap someone today.' They plan for weeks; they talk to each other and give each other tips. They are sick. And they are out there. And they know how to talk to children, entice them to go somewhere, and to swipe them even when the world is watching. All you have to do is turn your head for a single minute. This can happen to a teenager as easily as a toddler, even if they put up a fight. You can't put up much of a fight when someone comes right up behind you with some cloroform, then quickly pulls you out of sight of everyone else. Even grown women can be kidnapped in public..

People are not kidnapped with anything like enough frequency for this to be a concern for me.

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

You get a link, you go 'who is this guy? I'll look at his page to see if I know him.' And boom, penis in your face.

A penis is a body part. My dd would probably laugh her ass off, and take the guy off her friends list. She won't die of shock from seeing a penis, she would just do the same thing I would - close the page.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

Assuming that she gets to the phone in time--and that the police come in time, this wouldn't be a problem. Is it inevitable that she will dial 911 in time and that the police will arrive in time? And there are a LOT of computer wizard guys that can do this, btw. A lot of internet predators are VERY good with computers.

Of course all of these things could happen. Lots of things could possibly happen, and sometimes unfortunate tragic things do. But I don't want to live a life totally based on avoiding every bad thing that might come to pass. There are what-if's to think of always. When my son walks to the store or the mall I worry about some of those. When my Dd goes with her friend to the movies I worry. I am a mom lol. But we do our best and get on with it. The kids do stay home alone quite a bit. Dar was saying that her Dd already goes and does things on her own anyway, so it would be much more likely for someone to approach/kidnap her in that environment than at her own home. Dh and I have left our kids home alone for quite a few hours before. We called to check in with them, and they know a variety of phone numbers to call if needed. I can't imagine always thinking the worst. How would we ever manage in life?

All you have to do is turn your head for a single minute. This can happen to a teenager as easily as a toddler, even if they put up a fight. You can't put up much of a fight when someone comes right up behind you with some cloroform, then quickly pulls you out of sight of everyone else. Even grown women can be kidnapped in public.

It can happen, but at the risk of sounding callous....so? I mean what does that mean? Cars wreck and buildings catch fire too. I know you are aren't suggesting that people should never go out because it's too dangerous. Are you saying that a teen should teens always be with an adult??

So you don't mind her accidently clicking on the link to a person's Myspace who has pictures of their penis all over it? You can play videos on myspace. You can have them load as your page does. She could get a msg from a 14 year old boy, check out his page, and before she knows it, she's seeing a video of a 14 year old boy masturbating because it loaded automatically.

(I know I am not Dar, but I figured it was as relevant for me) Do I mind? Well that's a strange way to put it I think. My Dd knows what a penis is, and she knows what masturbation is. I think if that happened she'd be suprised and then say something like "Wow! That's an interesting pic/video." and then move on. Oh and she'd tell me and her brother all about it. LOL While I am not really encouraging her to find all the porn she can, penises and the like aren't really an issue. You can't scare my family with genitalia.

[moonfirefaery]

Yes, but those kids wouldn't have been taken if it weren't for the internet, and I wouldn't allow my kids to use phone chat lines or place personal ads either. Again, those are things made for adults, just like Myspace, that should be used by adults.

Can you name even ONE instance of a predator coming to someone's house to kidnap them having found the address through ISP records?

We learned about this in high school. It is a fallacy of logic, an appeal to ignorance. You ask a question to insinuate that if the person cannot answer, their point must be incorrect. That I don't know of any specific cases does not mean that it has not and cannot happen, just as the fact that you cannot prove it has NEVER happened doesn't mean that you're wrong.

http://www.ilovebeingamom.com/child-...predators.html
The ISP enables you to track sites visited, track downloads with graphics, and even check your e-mails. NOTE: It is essential that your check all information your server provides you, since they too have the ability to Track your every move. Predators can work at server providers’ offices!

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-...1162--,00.html

http://www.wiredsafety.org/cyberstal...ing_qanda.html
'Armed only with an IP address and the desire to target another individual, a stalker or sexual predator will easily be able to pierce the fragile veil of anonymity afforded to Internet users. '

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/ap...l_predator_law
In this case, a girl had simply listed her zipcode on NEOPETS and found herself in a world of trouble. There's a nice set of statistics at the bottom.

Google it, and yo'll find lots of sites advertising software that can match a real address and loads of personal info to an IP address. If a parent can use it to track a sexual predator soliciting their children...so too can the predator use it.

I can't find any news articles about anyone actually being kidnapped because of ip tracking, but that doesn't change the fact that it can happen nor does it prove that it hasn't happened. I can't find news articles about a lot of things that I know for a fact have happened.

People are not kidnapped with anything like enough frequency for this to be a concern for me.

We're obviously just very different.

A penis is a body part. My dd would probably laugh her ass off, and take the guy off her friends list. She won't die of shock from seeing a penis, she would just do the same thing I would - close the page.

I'm sure any child of mine would do the same, but that doesn't mean I'm comfortable with my daughter seeing a 30 year-old man's penis, much less him ejaculating.

But I don't want to live a life totally based on avoiding every bad thing that might come to pass.

Neither do I, but taking a reasonable amount of evasive action isn't living your life based totally on avoiding every bad situation possible. I'm not going to worry about my son driving everyday, but I am going to worry about my son driving on the freeway six days after getting his liscense in the pouring rain. I'm not going to worry about my son googling stuff for his school project, but I am going to worry about him being on a site made for adults that is infested with pedophiles.

Are you saying that a teen should teens always be with an adult??

No, just that it can be just as dangerous to agree to meet a stranger in public with an adult as it is to agree to meet one in private alone.

I'm not saying the genatalie and masturbation would be scary or harmful, but that doesn't mean I want my child on webpages where it's lurking around the corner, just as I don't want my kids watching Playboy (or even Nip/Tuck, lol)