Can you refuse C/S at the hospital? - Page 4

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by Mavournin

And OTF - 75 minutes for a cesarean might not be that unsual. In an elective c/s it is usually 15 minutes to deliver the baby and another 45-60 minutes to finish the surgery and close. True emergency c/s do have the baby out faster, but the work afterwards still takes a long time. It's not like a cesarean is an in and out procedure.

The average time for a cesarean birth should be 30-45 minutes. I have had TWO elective, repeat c/s -- the 2nd one was 30 minutes and that was because I had my first scar and all the adhesions removed, my 3rd was 20 minutes from first cut to closure. So yes, they are in and out, unless someone isnt doing their job right. My sister was an L&D nurse and she said the average at their teaching hospital was like 45min. I also wasn't stapled up, had I been, it would have been even faster. My anest. is also my neighbor, he says my doctors average is 20 minutes, he said most the other Obs are about 30 minutes unless there is a complication. I personally don't see how in an elective csection the average is 15 minutes -- hell even on a baby story and birth day they get them out quicker than that.

[InstinctiveMama]

Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel

Oh come on OnTheFence, don't you know that absolutely any negative outcome is infinitely preferable to the shame of Cesarean? [/sarcasm]

And I must say I find it positively Orwellian that telling a mom that her c/s may have been the best thing at the time is considered unsupportive.

No one has the right to qualify another mother's birth for her.

This thread has stopped being about sharing information but is instead about trying to one up each other. I would rather not discuss serious issues with people conversing is a sarcastic and mean-spirited manner.

[Mavournin]

Yeah and A Baby Story doesn't have the benefit of editing for time. Puh-lease. Next time use a better reference than cheesy television.

Your experience may be different. But I'm going by published stats. And frankly, if I was that physician, I don't think I'd be running around bragging about my 20 minute open-to-close average for a c/s. I'd rather pick a physican with a steady and reliable hand than one who aims to be as quick as possible.

[maxmama]

I've worked L&D for five years. In that time, I can tell you quite honestly that the less than one-hour section is an anomaly. There's just not a a rush, and, frankly, I'd rather the surgeon took his sweet-ass time doing the repair.

Also, just FYI, OR charges start when the patient enters the OR (usually well-ahead of the surgeon) and end when the PATIENT leaves the OR (not the surgeon). If we're going to be nit-picky, that adds a good 20 minutes onto most official surgery times.

Why are we arguing over the cost of c-sections, anyway? Mine was $75K, when you count a two-week antepartum stay. So what? Does that change anything about it? Do I wish any less I hadn't had it?

Also, the costs for an induction are pretty much all nursing costs (pit is dirt-cheap, as is miso. Even cervidil only costs around $200.) Hospitals cannot bill for nursing care inpatient. So the room cost is the only difference, and since few hospitals will "let" an induction last more than a day or two, it's clearly not the equivalent of a section.

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

average cesarean cost in the Us per childbirth.org $7186 1989
average cesarean cost in the Us per womensenews.org in 2005 $11361

here is the average cost for 2001-2002 in Texas Hospitals:
Amarillo; 2 hospitals. C-Section rates 19-23% Avg 21.3% Avg cost; $8,500.

Austin; 7 hospitals. C-Section rates 19-27% Avg 23.4% Avg cost; $7,000.

.......

Medical care costs are much higher in the Northeast USA.

Philadelphia PA (major suburban hospital) :
1 vaginal delivery, no epidural, no pitocin: $15,000 + $3000 for doctor
1 c-section, $34,000 [a friend of sleeplessMommy]

These prices were 2002-2003. Should be higher now!

[egoldber]

I had an emergency C-section under GA last year (preceded by 2 hours in the hospital prior to that, but no epidural or other drugs used) with a 4 day hospital stay and the cost was about $15,000.

The OB's fee was about $2500. I think the anesthesiology fee was about $2000. I'm sure there were probably a few other random fees that I have forgotten.

The REAL kicker fees were my DD's 9 days in the NICU though. I think they were close to $50,000. You have to love an itemized bill with the line item "fetal resuscitation = $900". :

FYI, this was at a major teaching hospital outside Washington DC in an affluent Northern VA suburb.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

What the OP needs to do is learn from her experience, see the positive and negative in it, and MOVE ON (o yes, the dreaded move on comment). When you know better, you do better. So yes in many ways my comments were meant to support her, not to keep sending her down a spirally tube of how awful cesarean birth for a breech baby is.

See...that's the thing...you don't have the right to tell another person to move on. Each person works through their own issues at their own pace and in their own time. If you don't want to talk about the "what ifs" or listen to her as she discusses her regrets or feelings then you don't have to come and post in the thread. IMO it's rather calloused and unsupportive to do otherwise.

[pumpkinsmama]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

Women who have any form of induction usually incur nearly the same cost if NOT MORE cost than women who have cesarean births. They use far more drugs, have far more proceedures, have longer fetal monitoring, have their epidurals often for longer periods of time that require redosing at a high interval than a cesarean section mom, and often need more drugs to help them relax, deal with anxiety, nausea and vomiting, and the list goes on. Plus hours of Pit isnt cheap.

Not the moms who manage natural induction. There have been a few success stories by moms here recently. Foley catheters and breast pumps worked for one mom. I'm not saying it would work for everyone, but there are options to try.

[MomSquared]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

The OP of this thread asked a what if question? What I really wanted to say was "what if" you did refuse and your baby died or was injured? what if you refused and you had a prolapse cord due to breech presentation? WHAT IF? She made healthcare choices PRIOR to entering that hospital, she had a health, live baby, and she made a decision based on the information she had THEN. There should be no dwelling on WHAT IF she had refused, because frankly, she didn't. What the OP needs to do is learn from her experience, see the positive and negative in it, and MOVE ON (o yes, the dreaded move on comment). When you know better, you do better. So yes in many ways my comments were meant to support her, not to keep sending her down a spirally tube of how awful cesarean birth for a breech baby is.

Kim

Say what you mean....mean what you say.

[InstinctiveMama]

Originally Posted by OnTheFence

Quoted a post removed by moderator

ACOG can hardly be considered an unbiased source for information on c-sections, vbac, etc. PubMed (www.pubmed.gov), the Childbirth Connection (www.childbirthconnection.com) and the World Health Organization (http://www.who.int/en/) are three organizations who have no biased interest in presenting information.

[crunchymomof2]

I would be cautious about who I let do a breech vaginal birth. I think it could be dangerous to refuse a c/s and end up with a Dr who doesnt know how to deliver breech babies.

[Synchro246]

Originally Posted by Mavournin

You are half right. Doctors and hospitals do charge the insurance companies much more than they are willing to pay. They do this because every insurance co. has it's own fee schedule and therefore reimbursement varies. But you are naive if you think medical care providers give patients who must pay out of pocket lower rates.

In my experience - when I have talked with the doctors before services were rendered- they have given me prices at or below the "reasonable and customary". I have had some doctors say they don't do it, and I don't use their services unless they are worth the extra cost.

[Ekatherina]

maybe a little different, but after two days of labor at home i was transfered to the hospital. ds was in some weird position and doctor (very rude and hateful one) wanted to do s/c right away. i begged like really begged him not to. kind of "please please please wait a little longer i can do it by myself!" they were touched i think by my determination after two days of pain. so they let me..............another 12 hours .....then wanted to start pitocin when contractions suddenly stopped and i went again like "please please please " i think they were shocked at this point. i birthed my son with no contractions, just pushing him out by myself. but im so proud i did. they said later to me, they never saw a birth like that. :

[Synchro246]

Wow! That's impressive.

I do belive that refusing medical care and having that respected has a lot to do with the unique interactions that occur between the patient and the care givers. I think w a doc may "let" a woman avoid certain procedures, but really be agressive with another woman depending on how the doctor preceives the woman's knowlege and motives.

[georgia]

I have removed several posts that were in violation of the MDC User Agreement.

If you see any posts that you feel are inappropriate, please report them (the red, white and black triangular icon in the lower lefthand corner of the post) to a moderator immediately rather than responding to them on the thread itself.

Please also re-read the original post so that we can remain on-topic and keep this from being personal. Sarcasm does little to further productive discussion. Let's each do our part to keep this discussion on the board by maintaining an atmosphere of support rather than one of pointed criticism. No matter what your opinion

Thanks