"Say you're sorry" - Page 3

[sehbub]

I don't MAKE my children say "I'm sorry" however I do discuss with them why what they did was upsetting to someone else if they seem surprised. I usually pull them aside and we take a few minutes to talk about what happened, and why they reacted in such a way. 99% of the time, they then go to the person they hit/yelled at/what-have-you and voluntarily say "I'm sorry that I (insert transgression here)" because they feel the need to express their apologies to someone else.

Also, if someone does something to one of my kids and their parents MAKES them say "I'm sorry" as an automatic response type thing (or any time a person apologizes to my children, or us) they girls know that "it's okay" is not an appropriate response, but rather that "thank you." is more realistic. Because frankly, it's NOT okay for another person to hurt you emotionally or physically, but you can still thank that person for their apology, KWIM?

I'm trying really hard to be more GD and to help my kids understand their feelings instead of just assuming they know why they reacted a certain way. Emotions are confusing enough as it is, and I want to make sure my kiddos have the necessary faculties to express their emotions in ways other than anger. It's not easy, as my first instinct most of the time is to go with the gut response of "say you're sorry" but I'm trying, and my girls seem happier and better adjusted (not to mention kinder) for it.

[LynnS6]

How on earth do you make a child say something? I'm actually serious about this. I can suggest something, but ds will never, ever repeat what I ask him to. He will NOT say "I'm sorry" even when it's suggested. I think he's spontaneously said it twice in his life. But he's stubborn and he shuts down verbally when stressed. Since situations that call for 'sorry' are also highly emotional ones, he's not going to do it.

So, like others, we ask him to 'make amends'. Actually what I do is point out how the other person is feeling, and ask him how he can help them feel better. He'll often do something physically if he can't say something.

He sees us model the skill. And while "I'm sorry" is an important social grace, I'd rather have him learn empathy at this age. As he gets older, then I will explain the social grace bit to him.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by lurable

I don't teach dd please or thank you: IMO, Children will pick up social conventions on their own, I don't need to say "Not until you say please" etc. When I watch other mom's do it I feel like they are training their child like they wood an animal. I know this sounds harsh and I don't mean to offend, but when someone is holding something a child wants and says "Say please" and the child has to do it to get the item....it just weirds me out. I know that dd will pick it up on her own---after all, they don't call them social conventions for nothin' I prefer letting children absorb the idea before experimenting with using it

Just jumping into the convo from new posts but HALLELUJAH lurable (and other similar posters). I agree with every single word in this post from the depth of my being. Teaching kids to say "sorry" when there is no emotion behind it is just teaching them to be efficient liars IMO.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by maya44

Yes, I EXPECT my kids to say that they are sorry. I think that this is the only polite thing to do. I expect them to ALSO do something else to 'make it better' if possible.

I think most people want those words said to them when they have been hurt.

There are few things I've hated more than having someone say "I'm sorry", when I know they don't mean it. I'd much rather not have an apology than have a false one.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

There are few things I've hated more than having someone say "I'm sorry", when I know they don't mean it. I'd much rather not have an apology than have a false one.

NO KIDDING! Is there ANYONE who would dispute this????????

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by lurable

I don't teach dd please or thank you: IMO, Children will pick up social conventions on their own, I don't need to say "Not until you say please" etc. When I watch other mom's do it I feel like they are training their child like they wood an animal. I know this sounds harsh and I don't mean to offend, but when someone is holding something a child wants and says "Say please" and the child has to do it to get the item....it just weirds me out. I know that dd will pick it up on her own---after all, they don't call them social conventions for nothin' I prefer letting children absorb the idea before experimenting with using it

I do teach "please" and "thank you", but not by dangling treats. I also do it off-side, not in front of people. I'm not going to embarrass my kids because they don't get the "rules" yet. What I usually do is whisper to dd, or say something when the other person is out of earshot, to the effect of "did you want to thank so-and-so for such and such? I bet he/she would really like it". If she doesn't, no worries.

Kids are funny. Sometimes, she says it totally spontaneously when I'm not expecting it at all, and other times, she's just not feeling up to it (she really does seem to find it all overwhelming on some days.)

[maya44]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

There are few things I've hated more than having someone say "I'm sorry", when I know they don't mean it. I'd much rather not have an apology than have a false one.

Originally Posted by animus_silvae

NO KIDDING! Is there ANYONE who would dispute this????????

Yes, I would dispute this.

When something goes wrong with my order in a restaurant or a store I want the waitress or store manager to say she is sorry (and make amends). So long as she sounds like she means it I do not care what she is thinking inside. I just want the acknowledgment that something wrong was done. And I want her to use the words "sorry" which is to me the best way to express this.

And this is what I think MOST people want. Not all of course, I never said all. Not many maybe in the MDC world. But in the vast majority of the mainstream world? Yep, yep, yep.

[ochoco]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I do teach "please" and "thank you", but not by dangling treats. I also do it off-side, not in front of people. I'm not going to embarrass my kids because they don't get the "rules" yet.

ITA with you, Storm Bride. "Please" and "thank you" are social lubricants - part of what I want to do is make life a bit easier for my child, and if he learns to be polite, then people will respond to him more positively, and his life will be better. Seriously. I agree that it's not cool to do it in front of others or in a sort of taunting way, but practicing the skill at home, when there's no pressure, is fine.

Same with sorry. I'm Montessori-trained (and my trainer loved Alfie Kohn!), and one thing we did a lot was "Grace & Courtesy". This was basically little role-plays where we'd practice a certain situation. So to your child: Have you ever accidentally hurt someone and made them cry? Here's what you can do to make them feel better." And then give them the words and actions: "I'm sorry I hurt you, can I get you a bandaid?" (Or whatever.)

Giving them lots of practice will help. But if they flub it, they flub it, and I wouldn't attempt to force a child to say sorry. What you can do is give the 'victim' words to express their feelings about the situation, if they feel like it. That can also be modeled in role-plays.

[Justmee]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

ETA: I really dislike it when parents make their children hug another child after hurting them. A woman at our playgroup always did that and the LAST thing dd wanted after getting whcked in the head by this kid was him coming at her with his arms up. It seemed so disrespectful of dd's feelings.

ITA! I have one friend in particular that does this and it really : me! I mean if your 3yo just pushed over my 2yo, and then starts coming at her again in the guise of a "hug" and my 2yo runs away terrified what point does that serve. It does seem to be used as a get out of jail free card for some kids. Push, hug, push, hug. :

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by ochoco

ITA with you, Storm Bride. "Please" and "thank you" are social lubricants - part of what I want to do is make life a bit easier for my child, and if he learns to be polite, then people will respond to him more positively, and his life will be better. Seriously. I agree that it's not cool to do it in front of others or in a sort of taunting way, but practicing the skill at home, when there's no pressure, is fine.

I just want to add ds is pretty much non-verbal but 2 words he DOES use regularly are "please" and "thank you" and I have never once prompted him to say it. He has picked it up from watching me. If someone gives ds a treat or whatever, I will say thank you on behalf of him if for some reason he doesn't show it. I am all about modelling gratitude and appropriate social behaviour (I'm not a hill-billy!) but am disgusted by this "now what's the magic word?" crap. I want my kid to grow into a compassionate and intuitive being and not act like a puppy jumping for a biscuit.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by earthmama369

IETA: I really dislike it when parents make their children hug another child after hurting them. A woman at our playgroup always did that and the LAST thing dd wanted after getting whcked in the head by this kid was him coming at her with his arms up. It seemed so disrespectful of dd's feelings.

People actually do this? OMG I have yet to see it That's just downright creepy.

Oh wait a minute! I think my mom was raised in a "now kiss and make up" household. I guess that's pretty similar. But that's siblings--not playmates.

Either way, it just seems like utter nonsense to me. As an adut can you imagine someone coming over to hug you after a dispute? Yikes.

[oregongirlie]

I think it's also really important to teach kids that if one person keeps hurting you over and over and asking for forgivness, it's okay (or preferable) to not accept their apologies and to not play with them anymore because they're really not a friend.

[newmommy]

Originally Posted by maya44

Yes, I would dispute this.

When something goes wrong with my order in a restaurant or a store I want the waitress or store manager to say she is sorry (and make amends). So long as she sounds like she means it I do not care what she is thinking inside. I just want the acknowledgment that something wrong was done. And I want her to use the words "sorry" which is to me the best way to express this.

And this is what I think MOST people want. Not all of course, I never said all. Not many maybe in the MDC world. But in the vast majority of the mainstream world? Yep, yep, yep.

Exactly!

One day, our kids will be Adults. And if they haven't been taught basic social skills of:

"I apologize"
"Thank You"
"Please"

then they are in for a rude awakening. Society will NOT accept that. This has nothing to do with Me, You or the Mama next door.

We have to teach our kids to take responsibility for their actions. Take "Ownership" of what they have done wrong.

Okay, fine, you don't have to "say sorry" but don't just ignore what you have done either.

We expect apologizes from our World Leaders...why not our kids??? I work in Corporate America. I work for a firm that has invested millions of dollars in Ethics/Diversity training and let me tell you... because you are dealing people of all race/cultures/backgrounds, you had better learn empathy and you had better be ready to voice that empathy because you never know when you might offend someone just because you don't know their culture.

There have been times when the leaders of our firm have had to "say sorry" to the people of our company. When they have done us wrong. On numerous occassions.

It doesn't have to be about "say sorry" well, they better say something because that won't work in Adulthood.

[amaliaday]

Originally Posted by sehbub

Also, if someone does something to one of my kids and their parents MAKES them say "I'm sorry" as an automatic response type thing (or any time a person apologizes to my children, or us) they girls know that "it's okay" is not an appropriate response, but rather that "thank you." is more realistic. Because frankly, it's NOT okay for another person to hurt you emotionally or physically, but you can still thank that person for their apology, KWIM?

That is how I feel. I don't say "it's okay" nor do I expect my kids to....I like to say "thank you."

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by amaliaday

That is how I feel. I don't say "it's okay" nor do I expect my kids to....I like to say "thank you."

Where did the "its ok" come from anyway? I always thought an apology was something offerred like "can you accept my apology?" Thank you is the more obvious response to someone giving you something.

Now that I think about it, "its ok" that more often comes from me automatically! I am going to stop myself now and say "thank you" since that's more what I feel. I don't feel "its ok" much of the time.

Thanks for the awareness!

[myrmom]

i do expect my son to say sorry...unfortunatly because of his language delay he can't say sorry and will hug instead. This is fine for dh and I and other adults but sometimes if it's another child he has hurt it can be quite intimidating from the person who hit you coming back in your space. So I will take him myself and "we" will apologize together.

I think it is important for three reasons...one it teaches him that what he did was wrong and hurt someone. Two it teaches him what is required of him in this society, and therefore will help him as he ages. Three I think it makes the third injured party feel better...and since he made them feel bad it's his job to now make them feel better.

As for it's ok...no I don't make him say ok, because sometimes it's not. I do however make him say Thank-you..this way he is aknowledging the apology without letting the offending party think that what they did was ok.

[captain crunchy]

I don't expect or force or "make" our daughter say she is sorry -- or please and thank you for that matter, or anything else for that matter because I believe children are born altruistic, social creatures who desire harmony and peace in their environment. That having been said, I do recognize and honor the fact that my child is still new in the world and is learning impulse control as well as patience, how to express strong emotions, and how to negotiate what she needs and wants while being considerate to the wants and needs of others around her --- aren't we all still learning those things???

So if my child were to hurt someone, I wouldn't even approach it in the mindset that she was hurting them intentionally. The act may have been intentional, but I approach it like she has a need she is trying to meet but is not approaching it in the most effective/gentle/considerate way.

This is where information, guidance, and hands-on parenting comes in. I would first make sure the other child was okay physically and try to help them emotionally -- "Are you okay?" I am so sorry my daughter pushed you down, she was trying to play on the slide too and wasn't being very gentle was she?" (or whatever) I would provide information to my daughter -- I would make the assumption that the other child didn't want to be hit or pusehd "the little boy is upset because you were not gentle, he likes to be touched gently.Do you think we could try again?"

Basically, some variation of validating the other child's feelings, recognizing my daughter's actions and how they impact others -- I would make suggestions of how we could remedy the issue or meet the needs of all parties involved -- but using force or coercion to elicit some socially acceptable, though empty words of apology is not how we choose to *teach* our daughter social niceties.

For what it's worth, we have never forced please, thank you, I'm sorry, etc -- only modeled for her in daily life and explained situations where it may be appropriate to say them (without force or expectation) and she uses them pretty frequently. It can be done without force/coercion.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

I don't expect or force or "make" our daughter say she is sorry -- or please and thank you for that matter, or anything else for that matter because I believe children are born altruistic, social creatures who desire harmony and peace in their environment. That having been said, I do recognize and honor the fact that my child is still new in the world and is learning impulse control as well as patience, how to express strong emotions, and how to negotiate what she needs and wants while being considerate to the wants and needs of others around her --- aren't we all still learning those things???

So if my child were to hurt someone, I wouldn't even approach it in the mindset that she was hurting them intentionally. The act may have been intentional, but I approach it like she has a need she is trying to meet but is not approaching it in the most effective/gentle/considerate way.

This is where information, guidance, and hands-on parenting comes in. I would first make sure the other child was okay physically and try to help them emotionally -- "Are you okay?" I am so sorry my daughter pushed you down, she was trying to play on the slide too and wasn't being very gentle was she?" (or whatever) I would provide information to my daughter -- I would make the assumption that the other child didn't want to be hit or pusehd "the little boy is upset because you were not gentle, he likes to be touched gently.Do you think we could try again?"

Basically, some variation of validating the other child's feelings, recognizing my daughter's actions and how they impact others -- I would make suggestions of how we could remedy the issue or meet the needs of all parties involved -- but using force or coercion to elicit some socially acceptable, though empty words of apology is not how we choose to *teach* our daughter social niceties.

For what it's worth, we have never forced please, thank you, I'm sorry, etc -- only modeled for her in daily life and explained situations where it may be appropriate to say them (without force or expectation) and she uses them pretty frequently. It can be done without force/coercion.

Well said. Thank you, captain crunchy.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by newmommy

. Society will NOT accept that. This has nothing to do with Me, You or the Mama next door.

Society?! Society doesn't accept breastfeeding, but that doesn't stop me. I don't raise my children to go along with all of societies "rules" just because. They apologise when they are truelly sorry, and not because of arbitrary expectations society places on people. I do not conform simply because others say I must, and I don't expect my children to either.

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by daniedb

DS has a great sense of empathy, and he only acts in a manner that "calls for" an apology with other children with whom he is very comfortable, so it's been a blessing that I can work this out with close friends.

This has been my great fortune, too.

My approach is to nurture what seems to be a natural sense of empathy and compassion, mostly by reflecting it back to him. I don't ever force him to apologize. If I do something to him by mistake that would call for an apology, I apologize to him because I sincerely feel sorry. If he does something to me and apologizes, I say "thank you for apologizing" or "I appreciate your apology." We also talk about what "I'm sorry" actually means (mostly because he seems to be obsessed with discerning the actual meaning of expressions, rather than taking them at face value. I love this. ) I used to say, "that's okay" out of habit, but then he started saying it when it really wasn't okay. "Thank you" or expressing appreciation feels much more appropriate and sincere.

On the occasion that he's done something to another child and does not apologize, I just make sure that the child is okay and tell the child I'm sorry that s/he was hurt/upset/whatever. I don't really do it on my son's behalf, because I don't feel it's appropriate for me to put words in his mouth. I just express it from my point of view.

I get why people think it's important for children to say they're sorry, but having seen ds on the receiving end of insincere apologies (and hugs! ack!), it kind of makes me twitch.