If it's needed later in life...

[MelissaEvans]

If circ is honestly needed later in life, wouldn't that be easier on the boy/man? The foreskin is very attached in the infant's penis, I would expect it to be easier to remove when it's retractable. Is this a fair assumption? (Also easier because the older male can have all the pain killers he needs afterward and because he knows it was done for medical, not manipulating, purposes.)

My goodness, the more I think about this subject, the stronger I feel about it. I'm writing letters to doctors, insurance compaines, and drafting one for politicians. I'm sorry if I'm being odd on these forums, I just can't seem to let it go.

~Melissa

[calngavinsmom]

Well, if you think you're being odd, I'm just darn crazy! It drives me nuts every time I think of circumcision. Even when I hear the word spoken, I get a bad feeling. It makes *absolutely* no sense! Why can't some people see that? I am not talking about the parents who aren't educated about it, but about the ones who are and the doctors and nurses who advocate it. How can someone know and understand what it is and think that it is a good thing?

I guess I just wanted to say I know where you're comming from and that I'm glad to hear it's not just me

Maybe if there are enough of us, it will make a difference, sure couldn't hurt anyways!

Take care!
Tara

[Frankly Speaking]

Melissa:

You are right on target in everything you said. It's odd how the more you understand it, the madder you get, isn't it? We think the Africans are bad and we've got our own dirty little secret quietly hidden in our pants.


Tara:

If you're crazy, better get me a straight jacket and padded room. I've been like this for forty years. Surely I'm some kind of danger to society.



Frank

[Jane]

Honestly, I've never understood the part about doing cosmetic surgery when the part is so little that removal can't be properly controlled? I mean, shouldn't they use a microscope or something, like they'd do if it was a toe needing surgery?

I've seen some real ugly penises, crooked scars and bent shafts and funny skin things. I'm sure if they did it at 9 years it would at least be straight! (That's the norm in Turkey, for one). And the "right" amount of skin would be taken off, rather than too much.

Edited: I am ANTI circumsion. I just realized my post might give an opposite impression.

[Frankly Speaking]

I don't think appearance is a critical factor. I think it's a matter of get it done, go on to the next one and get your money.

Circumcision is not like plastic surgery where they are trying to achieve a certain effect and hide scars, remove wrinkles, disguise skin inconsistencies and repair defects. It's more of an attitude of just get it done and move on to something else. After all, the patient isn't going to complain and few parents complain unless there is something glaringly wrong. A clamping, crushing, tearing procedure is not likely to win any "Awards of Excellence" for cosmetic surgery. Heck, few people are likely to see it anyway so why should they take pains to try to make it look better?



Frank

[Greaseball]

Very few men actually need it later in life. In countries that don't do it routinely I hear only about 1 in 16,000 men actually end up needing it.

But...there is a very real risk that a woman will end up needing a mastectomy. The rate for breast cancer is 1 in 9, not all of which is noticed at the early stages.

Still, if I had a mastectomy I'd sure want it done while I was an adult!

[MelissaEvans]

Thank you for that comparison! My gosh, "circumcision lessens your chance of penis cancer" which is normally about what, 1 in a million. They could just chop off baby girl's boobs to "prevent breast cancer" which is so much more common. Heck, they don't need to breastfeed. Formula is just as good, and so much more convenient! (please note sarcasm)

Thank you for another reason to wait to have it done, only if it's really needed (which is rare, I understand). That makes a lot of sense. If you can't see what you're cutting, it makes it a bit harder!

Someone else mentioned RIC so it doesn't have to be done later is "circumcision to prevent circumcision." I thought that made a lot of sense too. =)

You guys are great. =)
~Melissa

[Frankly Speaking]

Something I've been thinking about today

I keep seeing the justification for infant circumcision that it is incredibly painful if it is done as an adult. That's a crock!

My Father had open heart surgery. He was in some pain the first couple of days but he was trying to be the tough guy and when he mentioned it to the nurses, he would get additional pain medication so that he was comfortable. In open heart surgery, they have to break the breast bone to get access tothe heart, make very large incisions and there is substantial cutting inside the body.

The same is true of many types of surgery and in every case the surgeons are able to prescribe pain medications to make the patient reasonably comfortable.

Adult circumcision is a minor procedure almost always performed on an outpatient basis and requiring local anesthesia and 30-45 minutes to complete.

Now, if they can minimize the pain in these very complicated, invasive surgeries, how can it be that the relatively minor pain of circumcision not be handled? The truth is that the physician knows that this is very minor surgery and doesn't give the man pain medications and the man doesn't ask for them.

I suspect all of the stories of excrutiating pain is made up by the pro-circ folks to advance their agenda.



Frank

[MelissaEvans]

I keep seeing the justification for infant circumcision that it is incredibly painful if it is done as an adult.

But they think it's OK to do it to a helpless newborn. Go figure.

[Greaseball]

Circ is incredibly painful on an adult, but not more so than on an infant!

Infants usually feel more pain than adults do. An example is shots - when I get a shot, I grit my teeth and it's over. When dd gets one, she screams for several minutes.

Circ is easier for doctors to do on an infant because they are defenseless, and also cheaper for the parents because adults require general anesthesia.

[lilyka]

At least a man is able to see it comeing and know what to exoect. Poor little babies are just hangin out minding thier own business when they are suddenly stripped naked, strapped to a board, covered with a blanket, and thier little friend is crushed, torn, peeled, and cut. Holy crap what just happened to me. Must faint now . . .

Also i think people think it hurts a man more because he complains more vocally and know what he lost.

[mimie]

Not to mention the fact that if it is done as an adult it must be soooo much easier to keep clean. The idea of that kind of wound sitting in a wet diaperall day.... no wonder newborns cry.

[MelissaEvans]

That's always bothered me about the "hygene" "reason." So, having a normal part of your skin is bad, but having a wound sitting in a diaper with pee and poo is fine? (Yes, I do change my baby's diapers, but it's not instentanious.)

~Melissa