Very hard to discipline 4 year old... ADVICE NEEDED - Page 2

[sparkeze]

I have found that a lot of kids *need* something when they act out. It could be many things but a basic checklist might include: attention, food, drink, sleep, hugs, removal from a bad situation. I think time-outs work great, if you can spend the time out with him focusing on what he needs and help him understand how he's feeling. Since you have a baby and a toddler besides your 4 yo, maybe when he starts to act out you could have him sit next to you and tell you a story or give you a massage, you know something more enjoyable!

[mamaduck]

Wow, you've gotten some really great advice here!

I agree with the other posters that you needs a whole new approach. Or rather, you need to approach him from a whole new angle. He has decided that nothing you can do to punish him is going to be severe enough to "win" the battle. He has a high level of pride and a strong will, and he's not interested in being controlled by other people. This is a GREAT attribute. He's an amazing little person, and he'd going to grow up to a be a strong and self-assured adult who lives on his own terms.

I agree with Thailia that the sticker chart is doing more harm than good the way that you have it set up. "Good" and "bad" are vauge labels, and they set a child up for failure. If you really feel the need to have a sticker chart (I never have) then you need to list very specific behaviors on it. "Jayden did not hit anyone today!" "Jayden cleaned up toys today."

When you give verbal correction, be very specific as well. "We do not hit in our family." "You need to get off the floor and sit still." "Please stop kicking the wall." These statements are not judging his character, not shaming, and not stressful. They are simple instructions. You can follow through on direct correction like this by "helping" him to move his body. But at all costs, avoid saying things like, "Settle down" or "calm down" or "be good" or "get it together" or "be nice." The reason is, these comments communicate that you are unhappy with him, but don't tell him how to fix the problem. His sense of shame will build up over the day, and he will be increasingly angry and frustrated. And probably anxious. A strong willed child who is angry, frustrated and anxious tends to behave very badly. And then you are in a vicious cycle.

Drop the food issues. It is NOT worth it. Your job is to provide healthy foods. His job is to eat them, or not eat them, or eat a little of them -- or whatever he chooses. But as a general rule, avoid controling anything to do with his bodily functions. You just can't win, and its not worth it.

The doctor's office scenerio is totally normal!!! My kids are much older, and I still cannot take them both when one of them has an apt. They can't stand the attention the other child is getting. This is a situation in which I ask a neighbor, a friend, or a relative for help. Or I ask DH to take the day off. I also babysit for friends in this situation, becuase I understand how bad it can get!

I agree with Thalia that its a good idea to prioritize the problems, and let the little things go. Make a list from most to least serious problems. Take them one at a time. Start with the sibling relationship, and be very creative and put your energy into solving this problem. ONE success will make your life easier, will give him confidence, and the other issues will be easier to deal with later on. Heck, he'll probably outgrow a lot of it on his own!

[MelMel]

Originally Posted by mf_colon

OK, I know this might sound harsh but one thing my husband and I do and it works is this- if our daughter does something really bad one of her toys gets the trash. And it seems to have worked, we rarely implement this punishment but she now seems to know that for every bad action their is a consequence.

Or if you do not want to get really extreme like that, then take away one of his favorite toys for a couple of days. Alot of times, timeouts do not work because most of the time kids get sent to their room and what is waiting for them there? Toys, TV, Video Games, etc. It kind of works against the punishment.

I know alot of ppl might not agree with me but as said above every kid is different and needs a different approach.

cant wait till she discovers this can go both ways and whenever you do something random to upset her, you find YOUR missing a few things, lol...and the wacky thing is you would probably severly punish her for it, so when does it stop over there? :

and most kids I know DONT have a tv, video games, etc in their rooms. mine certainly dont. but of course, we all share a room. they have books and a few soft, quiet toys that help her calm down and relax...and not hurt herself throwing them (again, my very gently parented 4 year old dd is quite fiesty, lol..and usually has to go in there to calm down and have 'alone time' once or twice a day)

for some, even the 'alone time' thing seems a bit controlling and harsh on my part...especially as i am carrying her in there kicking and screaming....but i need to protect all of us. I am getting better at seeing that she needs chill time before it gets so bad. she just recently stopped napping during the day, so we have all needed to find a creative approach to handling the 'second wind' time frame when the slightest injustice causes a bit of a flip out sesssion.

overall, she is such a wonderful, creative, dynamic kid. I would never want to stifle or 'break' her, to avoid the tantrums/difficult periods, so I try to guide her through them. teach her control EVEN WHEN or IN SPITE OF being tired, hungry, bored, overstimulated, etc.....she changes daily so my approach has to as well.

this is why I stated that I use a mix of a more firm approach with GD. I think GD works easily with a more relaxed child....but it can still really help a more challenging child who can really react poorly to arbitrary punishments and the harshness of typical, conventional methods (time outs, removing 'treats', toys, sticker charts, and even swatting/hitting, and excessive yelling-I say excessive since most of us have yelled, or do yell, as we are only human and sometimes it just comes out, lol )

and a PP linked to the 'cpntinuum concept', and i am a big fan...while my babies are young and especially as they grow. Exactly why all the attention and focus should not be placed on an already spoiled child, everyone needs to be a part of a community/family, not control people and situations to the point of alienating themselves. IMO.

[Laggie]

we have the new baby so i dont get to bring them out much since we don't have a backyard at the moment and austin runs off.

I think this is a big part of it. I'm sorry, but a 4 year old needs to get out and get some exercise. Every day. I'd be acting like him too if I was cooped up in an apartment with a family of 5! There must be a park in your area that's suitable for little kids... Most of the ones around here have pretty good fences. Do you have friends who could come with you and help? It must be hard to manage three little ones, but still, I think this is really important. Playdates? A playgroup?

[Thalia the Muse]

Yeah, I think the combination of not getting outside much plus having his brother constantly getting into his stuff/in his face explains a lot here! No wonder he's not feeling very loving toward his brother at the moment.

Is there a place you can set up for him that's off-limits to his brother, where he can put big-boy toys and stuff and use them unmolested? I know it's hard in a small apartment ... maybe baby-gate off a corner somewhere and give him a toy bin and table and chair there where he can have his own space? And just keep reminding him that he CANNOT hit or harm Austin in any way, but you understand this his hard for him and that he doesn't have to tolerate being pestered either -- he can always go to his own space. That plus daily outside time might make everything tons easier.

And hugs to you; three kids that young together in an apartment all day must be tough!