GD for day care kids

[rikiamber]

: i provide child care for a friend. Two girls 18 and 36 mos, i also have my 3 mo old. the girls are pretty undiciplined, they hardly respond to anything other than yelling. 'no' is a joke, and when i try to explaine somthing to the oldest she tunes out and avoids eye contact. the youngest just dosent listen, i had to call her name 20 times today to get her to look at me : they dont behave for their parents so i know its not just me. the youngest also likes to run ahead and not hold hands or stay put when in a parking lot as we discovered today. i want to take them places and to play groups (they are a bit unsocialoized) during this long long long winter, but i cant get them to listen in their own yard. i dont feel that i should have to leash these kids just to go somewhere. but they cannot follow simple instructions....please help me before i go insane :

[Fuamami]

It sounds like they're pretty normal to me. An 18 month old has a one track mind, so instead of just calling her name, I'd get down on her level and distract her until she's on another track. It sounds like the three year old may feel a little ashamed/frightened, especially if she's avoiding eye contact. Is she yelled at a lot?

A quick read that might help you get some ideas on how to deal with them is Elizabeth Pantley's Kid Cooperation. I also love Becoming the Parent You Want to Be.

How do their parents deal with them?

[chfriend]

Wow! You have your hands full. They sound really normal to me...but 3 under 5 is a bunch of kid energy. People this little don't really socialized the way older kids do. Can you keep them home with you and set up age-appropriate fun...playdough, blocks, pots and pans?

[autumnbloom]

they do sound like normal kiddos... but rest assured, that sounds like normal frustration.

have you tried time outs? I find that yelling usually doesnt work. The thing I find it does is 1) lets the kids know that they are getting attention for bad behavior and 2) undermines authority because basically if i were to yell I'd be showing the kids that they can get a rise out of me and control *my* behavior (after a while it gets predictable and they try to push buttons, though the younger one may not have that concept down yet). worst of all, I've found that when I yell I wind up feeling worse for it (more stressed, guilty for losting my temper, more out of control in the situation, etc).

i dont like ALL her practices, but i really like the super-nanny's time-out-chair idea... Its helped us a lot with our dd who has autism and a lot of behavior issues. The idea is that you choose a chair (or a small rug even) as the "naughty chair" (you can call it the time-out chair or whatever else suits your fancy). Here's how it works, according to super nanny

~child is clearly told the rules.
~if child breaks the rules they are given one stern warning, and is told that if they repeat the behavior they will go into the naughty chair.
~if they repeat the behavior again they go straight to the naughty chair. they must stay there for 1 minute per year old that they are (so the 18 month old would stay for 1 1/2 minutes. the 3 year old for 3 minutes).
~if they get up before the time is up, put them back on the naughty chair, but say nothing to them (talking is giving them attention for the bad behavior). Keep repeating this until they sit in the naughty chair (or very very very very close by - use your best judgement), for the full time allotted.
~remind them why they were put into time out and ask for an apology (if the 18 month old cant talk, remind her why she was there, and ask her if she is sorry - hopefully she will be able to say yes or no).
~After the apology, give a hug and allow them to get up from time out and resume their activities.
~hold no grudges, and move on with hope (this does neither of you any good, and by holding on to negativity, the children may act up even more...)
~most importantly, remain calm during all this (even if you want to scream inside). By doing that, you're showing that you're in control, and that they simply must behave, and its not going to hurt YOU if they're in time out (it is just hard on them). If they see it is upsetting YOU then they may try to provoke it to watch your reaction.

I'm sure you're doing a great job with them... I'm just sharing some of what has worked well for us. I hope it helps with your stress level!

as for the running off in parking lots, how about keeping your 3 month old in a sling, putting the 18 month old in a stroller, and having the older one help you push? I know it sounds like a lot of hassle, but it may end up saving you some stress in the long run, and it really is only for a short while, going from a to b.

[Dragonfly]

I've been in that position (only with 4 under 4, the oldest of which was mine) and it truly is very frustrating, though definitely normal. How long have you been caring for them? It may just be a matter of establishing a rapport. Regardless, I agree that a hands-on approach is imperative. Calling an 18-month-old or 3-year-old child's name to get them to stop or come with you can be generally pointless with normal children. Touch, connection, general "get off your butt" parenting... if you don't already have a sturdy sling for your baby, I'd really recommend it.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by autumnbloom

they do sound like normal kiddos... but rest assured, that sounds like normal frustration.

have you tried time outs? I find that yelling usually doesnt work. The thing I find it does is 1) lets the kids know that they are getting attention for bad behavior and 2) undermines authority because basically if i were to yell I'd be showing the kids that they can get a rise out of me and control *my* behavior (after a while it gets predictable and they try to push buttons, though the younger one may not have that concept down yet). worst of all, I've found that when I yell I wind up feeling worse for it (more stressed, guilty for losting my temper, more out of control in the situation, etc).

i dont like ALL her practices, but i really like the super-nanny's time-out-chair idea... Its helped us a lot with our dd who has autism and a lot of behavior issues. The idea is that you choose a chair (or a small rug even) as the "naughty chair" (you can call it the time-out chair or whatever else suits your fancy). Here's how it works, according to super nanny

~child is clearly told the rules.
~if child breaks the rules they are given one stern warning, and is told that if they repeat the behavior they will go into the naughty chair.
~if they repeat the behavior again they go straight to the naughty chair. they must stay there for 1 minute per year old that they are (so the 18 month old would stay for 1 1/2 minutes. the 3 year old for 3 minutes).
~if they get up before the time is up, put them back on the naughty chair, but say nothing to them (talking is giving them attention for the bad behavior). Keep repeating this until they sit in the naughty chair (or very very very very close by - use your best judgement), for the full time allotted.
~remind them why they were put into time out and ask for an apology (if the 18 month old cant talk, remind her why she was there, and ask her if she is sorry - hopefully she will be able to say yes or no).
~After the apology, give a hug and allow them to get up from time out and resume their activities.
~hold no grudges, and move on with hope (this does neither of you any good, and by holding on to negativity, the children may act up even more...)
~most importantly, remain calm during all this (even if you want to scream inside). By doing that, you're showing that you're in control, and that they simply must behave, and its not going to hurt YOU if they're in time out (it is just hard on them). If they see it is upsetting YOU then they may try to provoke it to watch your reaction.

I'm sure you're doing a great job with them... I'm just sharing some of what has worked well for us. I hope it helps with your stress level!

as for the running off in parking lots, how about keeping your 3 month old in a sling, putting the 18 month old in a stroller, and having the older one help you push? I know it sounds like a lot of hassle, but it may end up saving you some stress in the long run, and it really is only for a short while, going from a to b.

I have a 17 month old, and there is no way on earth he would get the concept of a "naughty" chair. It WOULD serve to piss him off. It WOULD NOT help him learn acceptable behavior. And I doubt he would be able to separate his action being called naughty from himself being called naughty.

Here's a link to what I think is a more appropriate way to use time out, if you decide to go that route.

http://www.child.com/child/story.jht...me_out_out.xml

[abac]

i had to call her name 20 times today to get her to look at me

I'm not sure if you're exagerating or not, but you might want to try a different approach after the second time you call her name. This sounds like normal behavior to me. I know it can be frustrating, but they really are acting age appropriately. If a child isn't responding when you say her name, you could get down to her level and look her in the eye as you speak to her. This usually has a better effect than talking from across the room. If they are unable to attend playgroups, you could try taking them to unorganized places like parks, sliding in the winter, the library, etc.

Please remember that children, like everyone else, have the right to listen or not when you are speaking to them. If you are expecting them to listen and do what you say, you are expecting too much. Try not to tell them what to do unless it's absolutely neccessary. It is aggravating (for anyone) to be told what to do all the time. I find with ds (2.5 years) that if he starts resisting and acting defiant that I really need to back off and leave him alone and stop telling him what to do. If I'm agreeable about everything, it seems to be contagious and he starts acting agreeable also. Sometimes telling them what to do and expecting them to do exactly what you say leads to worse behavior and more resistance. Try to lighten up a little and let them have free reign as much as possible.

I also watch 2 children, ages almost 3 and almost 5. We go to parks every day they are with us. We also go for walks in the woods. Neutral territory and outside play work wonders for children.

Even the oldest that you're watching , at 36 months, is still really a baby. They are so young.

Good luck.