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autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids?

post #1 of 276
10/13/06 at 11:31am
Thread Starter 
I've just been wondering about this recently. Does anyone know if there has ever been a study done to compare the incidence of autism in vaxed vs no-vax children?

Do most children with autism have their vaxes?

(Sorry if this has been discussed before )

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post #2 of 276
10/13/06 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Do most children with autism have their vaxes?
Yes, in the US. So do most children who don't have autism.

The correlation between vaccination (mostly on thimerisol in vaccines) and autism has been studied pretty closely. The studies seem to indicate that there is no correlation - vaccinated children don't develop the syndrome any more (or less) than un-vaccinated.

Many diagnoses of autism tend to be made in childhood, childhood is when most children are vaccinated, therefore it often seems that symptoms of autism appear after a vaccination. Plus there is a lot of attention paid to the possibility of a link, and therefore parents often make the association based on that.

But essentially there is no significant evidence to indicate that vaccination causes autism.

Regards,
Shodan
post #3 of 276
10/13/06 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
I guess my real question is whether there are any studies with information about the incidence of autism in no-vax children.
post #4 of 276
10/13/06 at 3:39pm
Well, the studies in the link compared autism rates in vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated. They find there is no difference.

Is that what you meant?

Autism rates aren't any higher in non-vax'ed kids, if that is what you are asking.

Regards,
Shodan
post #5 of 276
10/13/06 at 3:48pm
I don't see where any of the linked studies compared vaccinated children with unvaccinated children.

Maybe LESS vaccinated children, but not unvaxed.
post #6 of 276
10/13/06 at 4:15pm
What about the studies done on Amish children and the like zero rate of autism among them (and they are unvaxxed). Are you looking for something like that? I don't have a link but can look for one.
post #7 of 276
10/13/06 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
What about the studies done on Amish children and the like zero rate of autism among them (and they are unvaxxed). Are you looking for something like that? I don't have a link but can look for one.
A link would be great. Thanks!
post #8 of 276
10/13/06 at 5:05pm
Here's one, although this is fairly anecdotal:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/scho...ines122005.cfm

Quote:
The correlation between vaccination (mostly on thimerisol in vaccines) and autism has been studied pretty closely. The studies seem to indicate that there is no correlation
Not just thimerosal, but also the MMR and several studies DO suggest a link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../16/nmmr16.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...28/ixnews.html
post #9 of 276
10/13/06 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
The correlation between vaccination (mostly on thimerisol in vaccines) and autism has been studied pretty closely. The studies seem to indicate that there is no correlation - vaccinated children don't develop the syndrome any more (or less) than un-vaccinated.
Those studys were done by the IOC (The Institute of Medicine). The IOC is primarily funded by the United States federal government.
post #10 of 276
10/13/06 at 5:31pm
Here's an interesting article: (I'm still looking for an actual study done and documented, I know I've seen it before)

The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly

The same author has written a bunch of articles including one about homeschooling kids that are unvaxxed. It was titled "where are the homeschooled kids with autism?" or something similar.
post #11 of 276
10/13/06 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Well, the studies in the link compared autism rates in vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated. They find there is no difference.

Is that what you meant?

Autism rates aren't any higher in non-vax'ed kids, if that is what you are asking.

Regards,
Shodan
Sorry, I'm not seeing where any of those studies done have compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids and autism.
post #12 of 276
10/13/06 at 8:10pm
I was looking for cases of autism in unvaccinated children for about 10 years now. Found. One so far. The number of unvaccinated people I got to know in the last 17 years is over 3 thousand. The incidence there is definitely not 1 in 166.
The case I found is very interesting though. The child is truly not vaccinated (there were a few more that 'thought' they were not vaccinated, but were, in fact, partially vaccinated, so didn't quite fit my criteria), did not receive one tablet of any drug in his entire life, born at home. But there is a family history of autoimmune disease (severe allergies) and the parents were, of course, vaccinated with aggravation of those allergies at the time (part of the reason why this child wasn't vaccinated).
post #13 of 276
10/13/06 at 8:17pm
What would be interesting is if they would do a study on sibling pairs who have been vaxed and unvaxed. Especially since the risk of autism is higher if an older sibling has it.

Of course, I'm extremely biased, because I have two boys, one is vaxxed, one is not. One has autism, one does not.
post #14 of 276
10/13/06 at 8:22pm
Here's another one: http://marliah.livejournal.com/profile
Three boys - two vaxed and autistic, one unvaxed and so far not autistic (past the age the two older brothers regressed).

There was also a mention of a few pairs of twins examples from South Australia but I couldn't link it yet, anybody knows anything about this?
post #15 of 276
10/13/06 at 10:59pm
This isn't exactly what you asked for but I found it interesting enough to pass on.

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/news/deadly.asp

Mel
post #16 of 276
10/13/06 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Yes, in the US. So do most children who don't have autism.

The correlation between vaccination (mostly on thimerisol in vaccines) and autism has been studied pretty closely. The studies seem to indicate that there is no correlation - vaccinated children don't develop the syndrome any more (or less) than un-vaccinated.

Many diagnoses of autism tend to be made in childhood, childhood is when most children are vaccinated, therefore it often seems that symptoms of autism appear after a vaccination. Plus there is a lot of attention paid to the possibility of a link, and therefore parents often make the association based on that.

But essentially there is no significant evidence to indicate that vaccination causes autism.

Regards,
Shodan
You are absolutely right about the lack of evidence, but this lack of evidence is of no comfort to a parent (like my sister) whose child regressed into autism following a vaccination. Yes, it could be coincidental but anyone who has been through it will never believe in their heart that it was just a coincidence.

No, there is no significant evidence to indicate that vaccination triggers autism, but there is also no significant evidence to indicate that it doesn't. Autism is an "epidemic" now, with some figures putting it at 1 in 166 kids diagnosed. SOMETHING is causing the epidemic. I don't know what it is. I can't say that it is vaccination, but I can't say that it ISN'T vaccination either. Until I know for sure, my children will never receive another vax.
post #17 of 276
10/13/06 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DQMama View Post
No, there is no significant evidence to indicate that vaccination triggers autism, but there is also no significant evidence to indicate that it doesn't. Autism is an "epidemic" now, with some figures putting it at 1 in 166 kids diagnosed. SOMETHING is causing the epidemic. I don't know what it is. I can't say that it is vaccination, but I can't say that it ISN'T vaccination either. Until I know for sure, my children will never receive another vax.
well said.
post #18 of 276
10/16/06 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by annalily View Post
Sorry, I'm not seeing where any of those studies done have compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids and autism.
Well, from the page to which I linked -
Quote:
The Denmark MMR/Autism study (The New England Journal of Medicine 11/02).
This was a large-scale population based study where researchers evaluated the possible association between the MMR vaccine for all children born in Denmark between 1991 through 1998. Children who were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine were compared with children who were not vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. No increased risk of autism was found among children vaccinated with MMR and no association was found between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autism.
Reference: Madsen KM, Hviid A, Vestergaard M, Schendel D, Whlfahrt J, Thorsen P, Olsen Jo, and Melbye M.
A Population-based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism. [Journal: Article] Ugeskrift for Laeger. Vol. 164(49)(pp 5741-5744), 2002. Date of Publication: 02 Dec 2002.
Bolding added.

Do you see it now?

Regards,
Shodan
post #19 of 276
10/16/06 at 11:31am
I did not receive the mmr vaccine ...... but since i did receive others, i am still considered vaccinated.
post #20 of 276
10/16/06 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Do you see it now?
The section that you highlighted says "Children who were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine were compared with children who were not vaccinated with the MMR vaccine."

Annalily said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by annalily View Post
Sorry, I'm not seeing where any of those studies done have compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated kids and autism.


"Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated".

Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated is not the same as MMR Vaccinated vs Not MMR Vaccinated.

Bolding added.

Do you see it now?
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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Archives › Everything Else › autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids?