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autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids? - Page 6

post #101 of 276
Originally Posted by Deborah
Quote:
So death rates from every other disease went down, way down, prior to the introduction of the vaccine.
Shodan wrote:
Quote:
Not true, I am afraid -
look at the graph for meales, for example.
Shodan, my statement was very, very specific. I was not talking about incidence of disease, I was talking about DEATH rates. The graph you offered showed incidence of disease. I was not discussing the elimination of measles. I was talking about how many people died from measles.

Thanks for your contribution.
Deborah
post #102 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
The largest flaw in your argument is this, though - doctors have their own children vaccinated as well. What you are suggesting is that doctors are willing to sacrifice their own children for profit too. Does that sound likely to you?
This is the only study that I have seen regarding doctors vaccinating their own children. It was a survey taken by Swiss physicians in October 2004.

All physicians reported immunizing children in their practice.

Ninety-two percent of pediatricians followed the official immunization recommendations for their own children. In contrast, after controlling for gender, workplace, type of practice, and year of diploma, nonpediatricians were more likely not to have immunized their children against measles, mumps, hepatitis B, or Haemophilus influenzae type b. They more frequently postponed diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) (OR: 4.5; 95% CI: 2.0-10.19) and measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination. Although projected immunization rates were higher than effective rates, 10% of nonpediatricians would still not follow the official immunization recommendations in 2004. They would more frequently refrain from using combination vaccines and postpone DTP and MMR immunization to later in life. Several comparisons confirmed the weaker use of the more recently licensed vaccines by nonpediatricians.
post #103 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Shodan, my statement was very, very specific. I was not talking about incidence of disease, I was talking about DEATH rates. The graph you offered showed incidence of disease. I was not discussing the elimination of measles. I was talking about how many people died from measles.

Thanks for your contribution.
Deborah
You're welcome, but you are still wrong.
Death rates followed the same peak and trough pattern as measles cases in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsero96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan
The largest flaw in your argument is this, though - doctors have their own children vaccinated as well. What you are suggesting is that doctors are willing to sacrifice their own children for profit too. Does that sound likely to you?
This is the only study that I have seen regarding doctors vaccinating their own children. It was a survey taken by Swiss physicians in October 2004.

All physicians reported immunizing children in their practice.

Ninety-two percent of pediatricians followed the official immunization recommendations for their own children. In contrast, after controlling for gender, workplace, type of practice, and year of diploma, nonpediatricians were more likely not to have immunized their children against measles, mumps, hepatitis B, or Haemophilus influenzae type b. They more frequently postponed diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) (OR: 4.5; 95% CI: 2.0-10.19) and measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination. Although projected immunization rates were higher than effective rates, 10% of nonpediatricians would still not follow the official immunization recommendations in 2004. They would more frequently refrain from using combination vaccines and postpone DTP and MMR immunization to later in life. Several comparisons confirmed the weaker use of the more recently licensed vaccines by nonpediatricians.
Reminds me of the old commercials - "nine out of ten doctors recommend vaccination for your child!"

Thanks for the data. Interesting that pediatricians, who would have the most experience treating childhood disease, are more likely than other doctors to vaccinate against it. They have seen the effects.

Regards,
Shodan
post #104 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Shodan, my statement was very, very specific. I was not talking about incidence of disease, I was talking about DEATH rates. The graph you offered showed incidence of disease. I was not discussing the elimination of measles. I was talking about how many people died from measles.

Thanks for your contribution.
Deborah
Yep...here's a chart showing mortality.

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item
post #105 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post

Thanks for the data. Interesting that pediatricians, who would have the most experience treating childhood disease, are more likely than other doctors to vaccinate against it. They have seen the effects.
Actually, I would think that the specialists would see most of the effects. Not the pediatricians.

I would also wonder how many of the doctors in that survey actually told the truth.

Maybe most of the pediatricians lied because they are so used to lying to their patients. It's second nature to them.
post #106 of 276
I will admit I haven't read every post on this thread so I don't know if this link has been posted yet. But nonetheless I will include it.

It is about the amish society and how they do not vax and do not have cases of autism. A good read if anything else..

http://www.taxtyranny.ca/images/HTML...3Vaccines.html
post #107 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan
You're welcome, but you are still wrong.
Death rates followed the same peak and trough pattern as measles cases in general.
Your link says this:

Quote:
Measles death rate from 1901/2 (averaged) declined by 99.4% before vaccination in 1968.
post #108 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
Your link says this:

Quote:
Measles death rate from 1901/2 (averaged) declined by 99.4% before vaccination in 1968.
Yup! That's what it says!
post #109 of 276
There was a study done by the CDC..Centers for Disease Control..

It showed that there WAS a link between autism and vaxes, however, a different version was released to the public until the Freedom of Information Act brought the original version to the public's eye.

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/issues/me...autismHg.shtml

there ya go..

Showing the CDC covered the original version of the report.
post #110 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
There are crackpots in every field.


And they would use sites like quackwatch....



Here is a site for measles:

http://www.healthsentinel.com/graphs...rint_list_item
post #111 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Reminds me of the old commercials - "nine out of ten doctors recommend vaccination for your child!"Interesting that pediatricians, who would have the most experience treating childhood disease, are more likely than other doctors to vaccinate against it. They have seen the effects.
So what do you think the 401 (46.7%) pediatricians who didn't respond to the survey had seen? (Despite the email reminder "to encourage participation.")

Why do you think 50.9% of physicians didn't respond? If they felt so strongly about the safety and efficacy of immunization, and had seen the devastating effects of VPDs, don't you think that they would have all jumped to respond to an anonymous, e-mail questionnaire with just 11 tick-the-box questions? Why were thirteen empty surveys returned?

And with only 458 pediatricians taking part, (and 401 others who were invited, but didn't), how did they conclude that "95% of pediatricians practicing in Switzerland immunize, or would immunize, their children according to recommended schedules and vaccines" from this survey?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/u...&pmid=16263976
post #112 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Did you notice that your own cite shows that pervasive developmental disorders increased after thimerosal was removed? So if your cite indicated anything, it was evidence that thimerosal was correlated with a lower rate of autism and pervasive developmental disorders!
My cite was from the link you provided to show that the rate of autism increased after the removal of thimerosal. However, as you said, it was referring to the increase in pervasive developmental disorders, not Autism.

The terms are not interchangeable.
post #113 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
You're welcome, but you are still wrong.
Did you get confused? Did you really think that vaccines were introduced in 1901 when death rate was 9,019 for the population back then?
It was in fact introduced in 1968 when moratlity rate was a mere 51.
The mortality rate had been reduced by 99.4% before the vaccine even came on the market.
Thanks for the link - interesting that you would provide it.


Quote:
Death rates followed the same peak and trough pattern as measles cases in general.
Reminds me of the old commercials - "nine out of ten doctors recommend vaccination for your child!"

Thanks for the data. Interesting that pediatricians, who would have the most experience treating childhood disease, are more likely than other doctors to vaccinate against it. They have seen the effects.

Regards,
Shodan
You did not read that link either, did you? Yeah they've seen the effects alright. They didn't even respond to the survey.
post #114 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock007 View Post
So what do you think the 401 (46.7%) pediatricians who didn't respond to the survey had seen? (Despite the email reminder "to encourage participation.")

Why do you think 50.9% of physicians didn't respond? If they felt so strongly about the safety and efficacy of immunization, and had seen the devastating effects of VPDs, don't you think that they would have all jumped to respond to an anonymous, e-mail questionnaire with just 11 tick-the-box questions? Why were thirteen empty surveys returned?

And with only 458 pediatricians taking part, (and 401 others who were invited, but didn't), how did they conclude that "95% of pediatricians practicing in Switzerland immunize, or would immunize, their children according to recommended schedules and vaccines" from this survey?
I wonder how much non response bias is going on here. I would imagine a lot.
post #115 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
The largest flaw in your argument is this, though - doctors have their own children vaccinated as well. What you are suggesting is that doctors are willing to sacrifice their own children for profit too. Does that sound likely to you?

Regards,
Shodan
Talk to many DAN! doctors and you will find that they were never educated on the issue either in or out of medical school.

Many DAN! doctors were regular mainstream pediatricians until one of their own children became vaccine damaged.
post #116 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins10705 View Post
Ha. My dead 7 month old cousin had a pediatric anesthesiologist and a registered nurse for parents, I don't think they meant to sacrifice their baby...then again, doctors aren't the ones making the real profit(that I was referring to) and most of them probably truly believe in the vaccine theory based on what they are taught in school(even though reading the package inserts would suggest that vaccines are far from "safe").
Quote:
Originally Posted by twins10705 View Post
So I wasn't even talking about docs -- it would, however, be interesting to see whether or not the Merck big wigs get their children shot up with the same crap they peddle.
Sure would.
post #117 of 276
Thanks to everyone who replied to Shodan on the link that was supposed to demonstrate that the deaths from measles remained high until the vaccine arrived. You said it all, and very, very well.

Deborah

Hey, you gotta give Shodan credit--he doesn't give up!
post #118 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock007 View Post
My cite was from the link you provided to show that the rate of autism increased after the removal of thimerosal. However, as you said, it was referring to the increase in pervasive developmental disorders, not Autism.

The terms are not interchangeable.
Isn't autism classified as a pervasive developmental disorder?
post #119 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamamom View Post
There was a study done by the CDC..Centers for Disease Control..

It showed that there WAS a link between autism and vaxes, however, a different version was released to the public until the Freedom of Information Act brought the original version to the public's eye.

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/issues/me...autismHg.shtml

there ya go..

Showing the CDC covered the original version of the report.
This is incredible.

Pediatricians are dismissed because lying is second nature to them. But someone posts a link to something from some ambulance-chasing laywer, and you all swallow it like Gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grypx831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock007
My cite was from the link you provided to show that the rate of autism increased after the removal of thimerosal. However, as you said, it was referring to the increase in pervasive developmental disorders, not Autism.

The terms are not interchangeable.
Isn't autism classified as a pervasive developmental disorder?
Yes, it is. Sherlock007 doesn't know what he is talking about.

No surprise, that.

Regards,
Shodan
post #120 of 276
one thing I have seen posted and I just can't remember the links right now...but the incidences of autism have risen in AFrica and other nations since boosting vaxes...that gave me the willies.
of course those who protect vaxes say, 'well it is better diagnosed'...but I believe these were cases you could not miss..whether you were a doctor or mailman looking at the kids.
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