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autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids? - Page 7

post #121 of 276

btw

from Shodan's link---

Quote:
The pervasive developmental disorders, or autism spectrum disorders, range from a severe form, called autistic disorder, to a milder form, Asperger syndrome. If a child has symptoms of either of these disorders, but does not meet the specific criteria for either, the diagnosis is called pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS). Other rare, very severe disorders that are included in the autism spectrum disorders are Rett syndrome and childhood disintegrative disorder. This brochure will focus on classic autism, PDD-NOS, and Asperger syndrome, with brief descriptions of Rett syndrome and childhood disintegrative disorder on the following page.
which I believe still supports Sherlock007.... the terms are not interchangable. A mother could have a child who has PPDNOS but that child may not meet a severe form of it by being Autistic.. instead child may have antoher form and it is aspergers... if the words were truly interchangeable then why are there multiple words???

there are plenty of parents here on this board with children who live with these words and they can tell you the difference.
post #122 of 276
According to the CDC, there were about 300 deaths (all age groups) attributed to measles just prior to the introduction of the monovalent measles vaccine. Hardly what I would consider a killer.

The death rate fell even lower before it was used widespread. Keep in mind that the compliance rate for measles vaccine didn't begin to rise until school entry laws were put in place in each state.

Anyone have the link handy for the old CDC compliance rate chart? We'll see when measles vaccine compliance really kicked in.
post #123 of 276
Still waiting for Showdown, er, I mean, Shodan, to respond to this,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan
Well, from the page to which I linked -
Bolding added.

Do you see it now?

Regards,
Shodan

Loud & clear, you bold the following,

"Children who were vaccinated with the MMR vaccine were compared with children who were not vaccinated with the MMR vaccine."

Now answer this, were the children who were not vaccinated with the MMR vaccine, vaccinated with any other vaccines?

And keep in mind, the OP of this thread,

will bold to make sure you can see it clearly and understand the question,

autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids?


I've just been wondering about this recently. Does anyone know if there has ever been a study done to compare the incidence of autism in vaxed vs no-vax children?

Do most children with autism have their vaxes?
post #124 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
from Shodan's link---



which I believe still supports Sherlock007.... the terms are not interchangable. A mother could have a child who has PPDNOS but that child may not meet a severe form of it by being Autistic.. instead child may have antoher form and it is aspergers... if the words were truly interchangeable then why are there multiple words???

there are plenty of parents here on this board with children who live with these words and they can tell you the difference.
I don't understand what you're saying. Anything on the spectrum is classified as a pervasive developmental disorder. The specific names - Asperger's, PDD-NOS, are just specific conditions from the category of pervasive developmental disorders.
post #125 of 276
Quote:
I don't understand what you're saying. Anything on the spectrum is classified as a pervasive developmental disorder. The specific names - Asperger's, PDD-NOS, are just specific conditions from the category of pervasive developmental disorders
right.... so.... if strawberries, bananas and oranges are all fruit... it does not mean that banana is interchangable with strawberry. and it does not mean all fruit is strawberries... they are not interchangeable.. which if I read sherlock correctly is what sherlock was saying.

unless I am misunderstanding Sherlock's comment.
post #126 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post
Anyone have the link handy for the old CDC compliance rate chart? We'll see when measles vaccine compliance really kicked in.
Is this it LI? http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...G/coverage.pdf
post #127 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyttlewon View Post

Yes - thank you so much! Unfortunately, it only shows the MMR, not the monovalent measles vaccine, which was introduced first.
post #128 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
right.... so.... if strawberries, bananas and oranges are all fruit... it does not mean that banana is interchangable with strawberry. and it does not mean all fruit is strawberries... they are not interchangeable.. which if I read sherlock correctly is what sherlock was saying.

unless I am misunderstanding Sherlock's comment.
The article quote said: "In a study of nearly 28,000 children born between 1987 and 1998, the prevalence of pervasive developmental disorders was greater in those children vaccinated after the mercury-containing compound thimerosal was completely eliminated from vaccines in Canada."
Which means the rate of all the disorders on the spectrum went up, according to this study. Not *just* autism, but all of them. I'm not understanding how "interchangable" has something to do with it? Pervasive developmental disorders=autism spectrum disorders. http://www.nichcy.org/pubs/factshe/fs20txt.htm <-- this might explain more clearly.
post #129 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by grypx831 View Post
The article quote said: "In a study of nearly 28,000 children born between 1987 and 1998, the prevalence of pervasive developmental disorders was greater in those children vaccinated after the mercury-containing compound thimerosal was completely eliminated from vaccines in Canada."

The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec.
post #130 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post
The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec.
...and autism is a pervasive developmental disorder - I'm not understand what that was supposed to point out?
post #131 of 276
post #132 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by grypx831 View Post
...and autism is a pervasive developmental disorder - I'm not understand what that was supposed to point out?
Here's the rest of the quote from Safeminds (I didn't realize the copy/paste didn't take everything):

Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the greater Montreal population
post #133 of 276
"The prevalence for specific pervasive developmental disorder subtypes were, for autistic disorder: 21.6 of 10000; for pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified: 32.8 of 10000; and for Asperger syndrome: 10.1 of 10000. A statistically significant linear increase in pervasive developmental disorder prevalence was noted during the study period. The prevalence of pervasive developmental disorder in thimerosal-free birth cohorts was significantly higher than that in thimerosal-exposed cohorts (82.7 of 10000 vs 59.5 of 10000)."

This, from the link you just gave me (LI) explains exactly what I'm saying. Pervasive developmental disorders <i>include</i> autism, as well as the other conditions on the autism spectrum that are listed here.
post #134 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post
Here's the rest of the quote from Safeminds (I didn't realize the copy/paste didn't take everything):

Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the greater Montreal population
I think we are talking about two different things, or else I'm just totally confused now. I'm saying that if an article says "pervasive developmental disorders" they are talking about autism, pdd-nos, aspergers, etc as a group...I'm not confirming or denying how valid the study is.
post #135 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by grypx831 View Post
I think we are talking about two different things, or else I'm just totally confused now. I'm saying that if an article says "pervasive developmental disorders" they are talking about autism, pdd-nos, aspergers, etc as a group...I'm not confirming or denying how valid the study is.
this is so funny because I was going to say the same thing to you, grypx831... I was not discussing the study.. I was just commenting on Sherlock indicating..

Quote:
The terms are not interchangeable.

when I saw Shodan's posting it too indicated that the words are not interchangeable....which made no sense to me since he said:

Quote:
Yes, it is. Sherlock007 doesn't know what he is talking about.
which I think is kind of odd.
post #136 of 276
Tracy -
I think I made you more confused as I was trying to explain, which was an accident. I'll try again to be more clear.

The terms "Autism spectrum disorders" and "Pervasive developmental disorders" mean the same thing. They both talk about the same individual disorders as a group.

Terms like "Rhett syndrome" and "PDD-NOS" are not interchangable. They are individual disorders, although they are in the same category of "Pervasive developmental disorders/Autism spectrum disorders".

If a study came out that said "Pervasive developmental disorders have decreased/increased because of blah blah blah", it's understood that they are talking about and including all the disorders as a group.

"The prevalence for specific pervasive developmental disorder subtypes were, for autistic disorder: 21.6 of 10000; for pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified: 32.8 of 10000; and for Asperger syndrome: 10.1 of 10000. A statistically significant linear increase in pervasive developmental disorder prevalence was noted during the study period. The prevalence of pervasive developmental disorder in thimerosal-free birth cohorts was significantly higher than that in thimerosal-exposed cohorts (82.7 of 10000 vs 59.5 of 10000)."
This quote (whether or not the study is valid or whatever) is showing how they are saying pervasive developmental disorders increased, then breaking it down into each category of pervasive developmental disorder.

Did that help?
post #137 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsero96 View Post
Actually, I would think that the specialists would see most of the effects. Not the pediatricians.
Specialists would also be more likely to see the effects of the VACCINES themselves, as most reactions are not immediate, but more life long illnesses that hit us in the form of AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES.
post #138 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
This is incredible.

Pediatricians are dismissed because lying is second nature to them. But someone posts a link to something from some ambulance-chasing laywer, and you all swallow it like Gospel.

No surprise, that.

Regards,
Shodan

You know what, Shodan? I think you should just shake your head, cut your losses that you can't change the minds of the wackos over at mothering.com and go back where you came from. I don't mean to be rude, and I have never spoken ill of another member here, but you are not contributing anything healthy or helpful to any of the discussions you have joined.

Regards,

Melissa
post #139 of 276
Shodan

Quote:
That would suggest the the genetic predisposition occurs on the sex-linked genes, or at least on the sex-linked genes that are expressed.

So the mutation which produces this predisposition would still be randomly distributed, but only expressed in boys.

If autism were linked to higher levels of testosterone, I would expect autism to appear more at puberty, where testosterone levels in boys rise.
The impact of testosterone does not necessarily have to a genetic one or limited to puberty (testosterone levels are different in boys and girls from in utero) the increased testosterone that is produced naturally for a boy baby interacting with toxins that are now increasingly present during pregnancy or later during infancy and early childhood and this can include vaccines.

Quote:
A Friendly Look at the Male Brain

This amazing brain is formed in utero, and therein begins its journey into a "male" or "female" brain. The tissue and neurons are genetically wired to form in certain ways, and then hormones act on the fetal brain to make it a male or female brain.

Here's how it works in a nutshell:
In the mother's womb, hormones surge at different times to catalyze brain growth. Specifically, at between three and six months in the womb, the human brain of the fetal girl or boy is being bombarded with different hormones. When a forming brain gets bombarded with testosterone, certain cortical areas grow and become connected to other areas. Connections between cortical areas occur in what are called neural pathways. When a developing brain gets bombarded with estrogen and progesterone, certain other cortical areas grow and connect.

If the child in the womb is a chromosomal male child (XY), the mother's hormonal system reads this as "male" and makes sure the child's brain is bombarded with higher degrees of testosterone. If the child in the womb is a chromosomal female child (XX), the mother's hormonal system makes sure her brain is bombarded with higher degrees of female hormones. In the womb, the brain of the child is already being sexualized-feminized or masculinized-by hormones.

Boys and girls and men and women share the same hormones. The fetal boy does not only get testosterone and the fetal girl only estrogen. The brain development of all babies, no matter their sex, is stimulated by all the hormones, just as grown men have some estrogen and grown women have some testosterone. But the signals sent between the mother's ovaries and the fetus depend to a great extent on the XY or XX chromosome. A boy baby is going to get more testosterone, and thus a more "male" brain; a girl baby is going to get more estrogen, thus a more "female brain." By six months into the mother's pregnancy, the boy's and girl's brains have formed and will be mainly affected by his or her own sex hormones from then on.
post #140 of 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by grypx831 View Post
I'm not confirming or denying how valid the study is.
Thank you for clarifying.
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