autism: incidence in vaxed vs no-vax kids? - Page 14

[StacyL]

Originally Posted by Minoh

I've just been wondering about this recently. Does anyone know if there has ever been a study done to compare the incidence of autism in vaxed vs no-vax children?

Do most children with autism have their vaxes?

(Sorry if this has been discussed before )

I just posted this article by Dan Olmsted on the topic in its own thread:

http://www.homefirst.com/faqs/exampl...inal_word.html

Excerpt:

It is impossible to summarize all the issues I've raised in my columns, but to me, four stand out:

-- The first question I asked when I started looking at autism in late 2004 was this: What is the autism rate among never-vaccinated American children? Vaccines are the leading "environmental" suspect for many families of autistic children. So I was stunned to learn that such a study had never been done, given that it could quickly lay to rest concerns that public health authorities say are dangerously undermining confidence in childhood immunizations.

Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y., introduced -- and just reintroduced -- a bill to force the Department of Health and Human Services to do just that (generously crediting this column for finding enough never-vaccinated children to show that such a study is indeed feasible). She calls it "common sense," and it is an example of ordinary people -- through their representatives -- telling the experts they want better answers, and fast.

Also, read his other article here for more info on the Amish issue:

http://*********/vaccine/olmsted1.html

[Sherlock007]

Originally Posted by bczmama

And another theory on the Amish "oddity" --

http://http://photoninthedarkness.bl...h-anomaly.html

In addition -- the assumption that the Amish don't vaccinate may be incorrect --

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=535

What do you expect from Kevin Leitch and Prometheus? They are both pro-vaccine, anti-treatment and anti-cure Neurodiversity activists, Autism Hub members and have links to Quackwatch.

[suschi]

Originally Posted by Science Mom

Interesting analogies but irrelevant. Improved screening/awareness is most certainly contributing to the 'epidemic' of ASD. Numerous other learning and cognitive disorders and some mental retardation diagnoses have been re-assigned to ASDs. To patently attribute vaccines to the rise in ASD diagnoses for lack of all the factors involved with phenotypic expression will undoubtedly be as erroneous and misguided as the 'thimerosal causes autism' theory. How would you account for the male disparity observed with ASDs if genetics are not at all responsible? How would you account for the already identified MECP2 genetic mutations found in almost every Rhett Syndrome patient? Or single-gene mutations and polymorphisms that have been identified with other ASDs?

SM

Dr Neal Halsey touches on this in his presentation here:

Dr. Halsey's presentation at the National Vaccine Advisory Committee Workshop on Thimerosal and Vaccines held in Bethesda, Maryland on August 11-12, 1999.


Slide 14 of 26 Slide Notes:
Testing in the Faroe Islands follow-up study required very sophisticated testing to detect very mild, subtle neurologic defects that would not be evident on routine examinations. The results provided many interesting observations, including the fact that the minor defects were noted primarily in boys. The biologic explanation for increased susceptibility to mercury of the male fetal brain has not been determined. There are other genetic factors associated with susceptibility to mercury toxicity which we may understand some day.

[Sherlock007]

Originally Posted by Science Mom

Suschi, Wouldn't increased diagnoses and awareness provoke the need for special classes? Haven't they also existed all along (during our lifetimes)? Some children that were on the spectrum and adults now would have been foisted into classes with the NT children for lack of awareness and severely autistic children were kept at home or institutionalised and/or labeled mentally retarded.

When my son regressed and developed autism at the age of two directly after a vaccine, the pediatrician said that he knew very little about autism because it was such a rare disorder. That was in the early 90s. At that time, neither the kindergarten nor the school my son attended had come across such an unusual child. It was not lack of awareness at that time, a child with autism or Aspergers Syndrome properly diagnosed could not be missed.

Now there are lots of 'on the spectrum' children because of very early screening, and teen screening, but these children are not disabled, they do not have autism or Aspergers Syndrome which are disabilities. It is my belief that there has been a deliberate attempt to hide the epidemic of autism that occurred between 1985 and early this century, by diagnosing more and more 'on the spectrum' children and giving them an autism label, and thereby not only trivialising the condition, but also increasing the rate. The latest rate of autism reported in the newspapers early this year was 1 in 58. Autism expert Simon Baron-Cohen knows that these children don't "have autism" but that's how it was reported.

Since 1999 and the link with vaccines, hundreds of famous historical people have been posthumously diagnosed with autism, and Aspergers has been associated with high IQ and giftedness. It has become such a popular diagnosis that people are self-diagnosing with Baron-Cohen's online AQ Test and joining Aspie forums. However, like Aspies For Freedom, they deliberately exclude lower-functioning individuals who have been diagnosed with autism and want to be cured, and they bully anyone who treats or tries to cure their child. According to these Neurodiversity activists autism is nothing more than a healthy variation in neurological hardwiring.

The Autism umbrella has been enlarged to include anyone who could be considered 'on the spectrum', and today when parents say that their children "have autism" it is very difficult to know exactly what they are talking about. For some in the last few years, a speech-delayed toddler who otherwise relates well to his family "has autism", or a gifted but shy, or socially awkward, teenager "has autism". There was a much clearer picture of what autism was in the 90s.

So when you ask, "Haven't they also existed all along (during our lifetimes)?", you are correct if you are referring to speech-delayed toddlers, or gifted and shy or awkward teenagers, but that's not what autism is.

[John Best]

"The biologic explanation for increased susceptibility to mercury of the male fetal brain has not been determined."
Hi Suschi,
Per your opinion above, Boyd Haley showed us how much quicker mercury kills brain cells when testosterone is added to it. He also demonstrated that estrogen weakens the effect of mercury. The only other genetic factors involved would be the presence of the APO-E3 or E4 protein which would show us an inability to excrete the mercury. There is no need to keep looking for other genetic factors, that would just be a waste of energy as we already have the answer here.

[Science Mom]

Originally Posted by John Best

"The biologic explanation for increased susceptibility to mercury of the male fetal brain has not been determined."
Hi Suschi,
Per your opinion above, Boyd Haley showed us how much quicker mercury kills brain cells when testosterone is added to it. He also demonstrated that estrogen weakens the effect of mercury. The only other genetic factors involved would be the presence of the APO-E3 or E4 protein which would show us an inability to excrete the mercury. There is no need to keep looking for other genetic factors, that would just be a waste of energy as we already have the answer here.

Boyd Haley has only performed some in vitro experiments with thimerosal (and also a topic clearly out of his area of expertise) and also his experiments consisted of concentrations of thimerosal/mercury that are much higher than what have been/are in vaccines and quite possibly higher than even what a reasonable physiologic exposure of a human would actually be.

SM

[yabba kina]

Originally Posted by Science Mom

Boyd Haley has only performed some in vitro experiments with thimerosal (and also a topic clearly out of his area of expertise) and also his experiments consisted of concentrations of thimerosal/mercury that are much higher than what have been/are in vaccines and quite possibly higher than even what a reasonable physiologic exposure of a human would actually be.

SM

please list boyd haley's cv, positions and place for readers here a pubmed search of papers he has published, and let the readers decide what his expertise is.

perhaps also, you'd like to put your own cv up, then we can decide on what basis you judge the worthiness of people like boyd haley...

[John Best]

Science Mom,
I don't see why anyone would criticize Dr Haley. The information he has given us about thimerosal is knowledge that helps us cure our children. The fact that testosterone makes the mercury more potent doesn't appear to be a fact that anyone would argue with who has the safety of babies in mind.

Look at the wonderful work Dr Mark Geier is doing with Lupron to get the testosterone out of the way to speed up the chelation process and help children recover more quickly! Perhaps he came up with the idea for that process by learning more about the problem from Dr Haley.

[Bow]

About 2/3 of the way through the Pessah lecture, there is some good info regarding what was found with levels of thimerosal much lower than what has been previously studied, as in 1 nanomol.

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mindins...ed_events.html

[Bow]

Since there are such wonderfully educated people here, I was really hoping someone would comment on the lecture in the above post. It just seems so wrong, that these questions are hanging out there and yet they continue to inject thimerosal containing vaccines in to pregnant women/children and children in other countries.

I wonder what will be found when they look at the combo of aluminum and thimerosal.

[Sherlock007]

Originally Posted by Bow

I wonder what will be found when they look at the combo of aluminum and thimerosal.

Is anyone looking at that?

[Tracy]

Originally Posted by Sherlock007

When my son regressed and developed autism at the age of two directly after a vaccine, the pediatrician said that he knew very little about autism because it was such a rare disorder. That was in the early 90s. At that time, neither the kindergarten nor the school my son attended had come across such an unusual child. It was not lack of awareness at that time, a child with autism or Aspergers Syndrome properly diagnosed could not be missed.

Now there are lots of 'on the spectrum' children because of very early screening, and teen screening, but these children are not disabled, they do not have autism or Aspergers Syndrome which are disabilities. It is my belief that there has been a deliberate attempt to hide the epidemic of autism that occurred between 1985 and early this century, by diagnosing more and more 'on the spectrum' children and giving them an autism label, and thereby not only trivialising the condition, but also increasing the rate. The latest rate of autism reported in the newspapers early this year was 1 in 58. Autism expert Simon Baron-Cohen knows that these children don't "have autism" but that's how it was reported.

Since 1999 and the link with vaccines, hundreds of famous historical people have been posthumously diagnosed with autism, and Aspergers has been associated with high IQ and giftedness. It has become such a popular diagnosis that people are self-diagnosing with Baron-Cohen's online AQ Test and joining Aspie forums. However, like Aspies For Freedom, they deliberately exclude lower-functioning individuals who have been diagnosed with autism and want to be cured, and they bully anyone who treats or tries to cure their child. According to these Neurodiversity activists autism is nothing more than a healthy variation in neurological hardwiring.

The Autism umbrella has been enlarged to include anyone who could be considered 'on the spectrum', and today when parents say that their children "have autism" it is very difficult to know exactly what they are talking about. For some in the last few years, a speech-delayed toddler who otherwise relates well to his family "has autism", or a gifted but shy, or socially awkward, teenager "has autism". There was a much clearer picture of what autism was in the 90s.

So when you ask, "Haven't they also existed all along (during our lifetimes)?", you are correct if you are referring to speech-delayed toddlers, or gifted and shy or awkward teenagers, but that's not what autism is.

sherlock007,

did you have the rubella vax out of curiosity?

[Sherlock007]

Originally Posted by Tracy

sherlock007,did you have the rubella vax out of curiosity?

No, and neither did my son.

[Tracy]

thanks.

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by suschi

I was born in the 50's, and there was no where near the number of children needing special services in school, for autism or asthma.

In the "good old days" there were state-run hospitals where severely disabled children were left, on a permanent basis, if the parents choose to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Elizabeth's_Hospital

On a girl scout field trip in the mid-70s, we visited St. E's to do some holiday crafts with a group of teenagers there. They were permanently institutionalized ... for being deaf : with possibly some other issues.

Parents had the option of institutionalizing their children for epilepsy, mental illness, teen pregnancy, or physical handicaps. I am sure many severely autistic children or non-verbal were "sent away".

During the Jimmy Carter presidency, adult patients were moved into group homes, so they could be "mainstreamed" into society. At that time, more social services/special education was available in the schools, so more parents "kept" their disabled children at home.

[Deborah]

But what were the numbers of institutionalized children?