Incident, how would you have handled it?

[luchita]

I have lots to learn on this GD philosophy, so I need some advice...My 3 yr old dd and I began yesterday very harmoniously and I thought, wow great! In the p.m., we went to the park. After a while, she wanted to swing so I helped her on the big kid swing. Then she wanted to swing the other direction, so I helped turn her around. Then the wanted the baby swing, then the big kid swing again. I'm very pregnant and really don't have the energy to keep having to pull her in and out of all these swings. I say very nicely, ok, but this is the last swing that mommy will help you with. She yells NO MOMMY! I let it go, but she continued yelling at me. I picked her up out of the swing (she was still in baby swing) and say calmly that we are going to leave the park because she's yelling at me. She runs over to the play structure, throws herself on it and proceeds to shriek, yell, stamp her feet, etc. I tried to reason with her for a few minutes because I didn't want to have to leave, but she was not having it. I calmly gather our things, pick her up and take her to the car. She is hitting me in the face, kicking me, etc. I finally get her in her car seat, get her home and she cries for another 45 min, running away everytime I get close to her. I laid on her bed and waited for her to come to me, which she did eventually, and we hugged & all was good again.
Until bath time. She was very frustrated with her toys. She was trying to make too-big toys fit on top of a too little toy and it kept falling. She was crying. I distracted her with something different and it worked for a while, but she went back to the frustrating activity. She was crying so much I said ok then, why don't we get out of the bath if it's not fun anymore? She flipped out again and threw her toys (that were filled with water) across the bathroom. I picked her up, kicking and screaming, and brought her to her room. She did this thing where she would back away from me, shrieking. Like she's in a horror movie and I'm some kind of monster coming after her!
I had to leave the room so I could get a grip. It was so bad I started crying and she got even more upset when she saw me crying. I didn't want her to see me crying but she followed me and I couldn't stop. Mainly, I was crying because these 2 tantrums took so much out of me (time, energy, emotions) that I'm really scared of how I'm going to be able to handle it with an infant to care for.

Later, when she was finally calm again, I held her & asked why she was so upset today. These are 2 of the biggest tantrums she has ever had. Her verbal skills are not yet very good and I couldn't figure out what was wrong.

Is there a different way I could have handled the situations???? I thought we were having a really good day and then it went to H*#& in a handbasket.

Thanks,

[edamommy]

ds is 3 1/2. He is prone to FREAKING OUT on me... only me. :

My rule is (now that he's able to understand and know rules/limits, etc.) is that he MUST freak out he can take his temper into the OTHER room (bathroom, bedroom) and freak / shriek to his heart's content but cannot talk to me until he can do so in a nice manner that I'm able to understand.

[acystay]

My 2 1/2 year old does the same thing and I do tell him to go scream some where else. That has helped. Then he'll come and need a hug.

You mentioned you were pregnant. I wonder too if this is a way of her releasing her emotions on the impending birth. I know my 4 year old did something similar in that she acted out in other ways before #3 came.

I know you honestly couldn't take the swing and moving back and forth from each type of swing anymore. When things like this happen I try to come to some compromise which I know you tried at. I ask too what they want and we try to come up w/ a middle ground.

ME: Okay bub, 5 more pushes
DS1: No
ME: Bub that's all I can do now, Corbo needs me (insert any reason you need)
DS1: NO MOMMA!!!
ME: 5 swings bub
DS1: 10
ME: okay 10 it is

now granted my conversation may go a bit longer. but I generally do get him to agree to a number at some point which I count and push with as much force as I can muster. I make those last ones just super count. Don't know if it will help at all but getting him to tell me a time to be finished helps a ton give back some control to my child who is looking for control on something.

[luchita]

Originally Posted by edamommy

ds is 3 1/2. He is prone to FREAKING OUT on me... only me. :

My rule is (now that he's able to understand and know rules/limits, etc.) is that he MUST freak out he can take his temper into the OTHER room (bathroom, bedroom) and freak / shriek to his heart's content but cannot talk to me until he can do so in a nice manner that I'm able to understand.

Yes, she seems to freak out on ONLY me also!

That makes sense. I think of all the "reasoning" with I was trying to do with her yesterday, when it was clear that she wasn't going to stop until she was ready to. What do you do when you're not home? Do you simply remove your son from the store/park/friend's house?
when she flipped out the 2nd time, at home, I even got to the point where I put MYSELF in a room and closed the door!

Jeez, we haven't had tramtrums in a while. She threw a lot of them when she was younger. I'm a bit perplexed as to why they are making a comeback.

p.s. I laughed when I read your name "edamommy"! Very clever! I love it!

[luchita]

Originally Posted by acystay

You mentioned you were pregnant. I wonder too if this is a way of her releasing her emotions on the impending birth. I know my 4 year old did something similar in that she acted out in other ways before #3 came.

I've been wondering the same...maybe that's what is bringing the tantrums back...and her lack of verbal power to be able to tell me how she feels about it.

[rainyday]

It sounds like you handled it just fine. Sometimes our kids are having a hard time, and the best thing we can do for them is to just stay as calm as possible and be there for them when they need it. It's so hard for me when DS pushes me away, but I think when he's really upset he just needs some space. I still stay in the room with him, as much as I can (sometimes I just have to walk away for a bit), so he's not alone, but sometimes it just takes time for the storm to pass. Then I'll talk with him about what happened later, when he's calm again.

I've also noticed that sometimes the worst times are right before he gets sick or when he's really tired or hungry. Sometimes I just won't know what is going on, but then that night he starts coughing. I know that as an adult, I'm certainly a lot less able to handle things when I'm tired, hungry, or not feeling great.

You did the best you can, and tomorrow will probably be better!

[oliversmum2000]

i think you did really well and did what you had to do to stay calm.

i think she sounds as if she was very tired and overwhelmed and i do think sometimes when kids get that worked up sometimes they may need a little space themselves.

it is veryu hard being pregnant and having little ones.

[nicole lisa]

The only thing I would suggest is to stop reasoning. If she's that upset and she's freaking out she's not hearing you anyway and the trying to reason with her might just be triggering her more. Too much talk can be overwhelming and it doesn't really give the feeling of being heard, KWIM? I found at that age, any age really, DS is much better at coming out of his own upsets if I just make it clear I am hearing his frustration/anger/sadness/big emotion. So I stay down at his level with him. I hug him if he lets me. And I do all the things we as adults know to do with one another to show we're listening. I nod or add in a "mm hm" or a "I see" - maybe a sympathetic "oh" or "that's hard, leaving the park" etc. Not too much talk but just enough for him to know he's being listened to and his concerns or feelings aren't being disregarded.

And I wait for him to make the next suggestion. Waiting is usually ok for a minute or two and it helps DS take the initiative and solve the problem himself. Oftentimes he'll calm down and ask for 1 more swing and then go, or can we stop and get a drink on the way home etc.

But good for keeping your calm and not being triggered by her frustrations.

[Dal]

If I were really stressed out, I might have responded as you did but I don't consider it ideal.

What I would rather do: I would have calmly told Simon that it doesn't feel nice to me when he screams "No Mom!" at me. As I see it, your daughter was just really upset that you were no longer feeling up to pushing her. From the sounds of it, she was having a total heyday on the swings. That was total paradise to her. She was really sad for that to end and it came out as "No Mom!" Threatening her for this -- we're going to leave the park because you are yelling at me -- is not helpful. When we're upset, we're not able to control ourselves as well as we usually can. At her age, she's still learning this control, so such blips are to be expected and I don't think there is any reason to blame or punish her for being where she is at. Just assume the best of her and she'll continue to progress. These "No Mom!" moments will melt away as she continues to develop the skills needed to cope with such big upsets. She's sociable and has good intentions. I'm sure you can think of so many ways that she's developing. She needs your continued support and understanding when she falters, and the information to know what is and is not acceptable and what else she might do under similar circumstances.

I might also do something to lighten up the mood before explaining to him that I don't like being told "NO MOM!" We learn the best when we're happy and not feeling threatened. Since this is the case and the most important thing about parenting is your relationship with your daughter (you may or may not agree with me on these points), if the mood can be lightened, why not lighten it? I see no point turning one unpleasant moment into a cadence of even more unpleasant ones. Rather, I see doing so as a lesson in defeat, misery, and anger.

One thing: Sometimes they're saying "No Mom!" but listening to what you are saying and understanding it. Simon loves to suck on his little tube of toothpaste. It's the kind that can be swallowed, but ICK. I let him know that I don't want him eating it and explain why and then ask him if he'll put it down. He often says "No, Mom!" -- sometimes several times -- but before long he drops it. There is so much they have to learn and they work so hard at learning it. It's also really hard on them as they learn more and more about how vulnerable and dependent they are and how much they have to learn. A lot of charity is required along the way! Honouring their autonomy is also HUGE and goes a looong way.

As I see it, your indication that you were going to leave the park because she was upset amounted to punishing her for what a typical child of her age would do and caused her already fragile state to deteriorate into what was probably a completely avoidable tantrum. One moment she was LOVING swinging, the next this amazing fun was being taken away from her, and in the next she wasn't even allowed to stay in the park anymore. She was very angry with you, obviously, which may have explained the rotten night that followed.

[Side point: I avoid the "I'll push for 1 minute" or whatever bit. I'll let him know that I'm getting really tired and want to stop soon, but don't set a fairly arbitrary time on it. There is something about setting a definite time that rubs me the wrong way, unless there is a real need -- e.g., we really need to leave by 1:40 because the parking meter runs out at 1:45 and I don't want to risk getting a ticket. My sister has tried the "2 more times down the slide" bit on Simon and he didn't appreciate it. I think kids get that it's a bit arbitrary and they resent that -- especially the finality of it, "time's up because I say so!" -- or at least that some kids feel this way.]

My approach in situations like that is to ask Simon if he wants to leave the part, not as a threat, but because hey it just isn't fun to be at a park when one is crying and upset. He's a huge snuggler, so when he gets upset, he typically ends up in my arms. I try to help him to understand and verbalize why he's so upset and present him with an alternative way of expressing those feelings. E.g., "I feel really upset when you yell 'No Mom!' at me. Can you imagine if you asked me for [something he often asks for] and I screamed at you "No, Simon!" (I'd say that in a silly and dramatic voice.) You are really disappointed and sad that I can't keep pushing you. I wish I could but it's really hard for me; my arms are getting so sore. Maybe next time you are really disappointed that I can't help you more, you could just say, "Awwww mannn! I'm having soo much fun and don't want to stop." Do you want to practice that? (Simon almost always says yes to this and then we role-play the same scenario a handful of times, in a case like this he'd probably choose to say "I don't want to stop!" which is a big improvement over "NO MOM!".) How about we go up the hill and down the yellow slide?" He often chooses to go home, but sometimes he calms down and we continue to have a nice time at the park. He's learning what he needs to learn and isn't flailing around nearly bashing his head open or attacking me in a fit of rage. I feel pretty strongly that most tantrums can and should be avoided.

Another thing I might do is totally drop it and discuss it later (or not). You might try this instead of even mentioning that you are getting tired pushing, since doing so may lead her to cling a bit more to the activity she was already enjoying. I might start asking if he wants to play some of his favourite games, actually starting into one to see if he's interested. This is often necessary since it's hard for him to really get the fun that he could have doing X when he's in the midst of having a good time doing Y. So, I might, e.g., make the noise of a ringing phone, have Simon "answer" it, and tell him that there is a medical emergency, would he come help me with my sore arms. He loves to play hospital-related games. He also loves to pretend that he's a firefighter saving kitty cats and others from some part of the playground equipment. Knowing how hard it is for him to stop swinging when that is so fun for him, I might decide to focus right away on distracting him from this, and if him getting upset over it can't be avoided, wait until another time to deal with the "No, Mom" since I'm sure it will come up again and if not, great.

I hope you don't take any of this personally. I've caused Simon to be really upset in the past. I'm not always able to follow my own ideals when I'm totally stressed out. Still, when I do, they work amazingly for us. I also know that when I start to be firmer and to make authoritarian claims -- inevitably because I'm in a crapper of a mood -- Simon gets totally pissed off and is apt to take some swings at me too. I think his anger is justified and I take it seriously, asking myself what is going on in him that is causing him to believe that I've wronged him. He's learning wonderfully without me punishing him or using authority over him when it isn't really necessary. I see these things as harmful for our relationship, so I have no reason at all to use them and a lot of reasons not to do so.

Best wishes as you continue to learn about GD!

[giddynewlady]

Maybe you went a time or two too many on taking her from one swing to another. I often find that in situations like this, I haven't had enough forethought to help my son avoid a temper tantrum (i.e., I do something I know I can only do once or twice, or take him somewhere when I know we can't stay long, etc.) Taking her back and forth (especially when you're pregnant) is bound to get tiring. Telling her "I can't do it again. I'm really tired" after the first or 2nd time, might have gotten her a bit upset, but, to be honest, she has to learn to respect the feelings and moods of others, and, you are not to be blamed everytime she has a reaction like that. I think sometimes in our efforts to be gentle parents, there is too much self sacrifice.