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Curious - Page 11

post #201 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini View Post
Wow, talk about a blanket statement. This is untrue for a fairly large portion of people.
I highly doubt you know any truly poor ppl. If they have zero money at the end of paying bills, where is the money for alcohol or drugs coming from? Just magically appears?

I know for me, the lease I signed says that if I get any disconnect notice it is grounds for immediate eviction. I can't not afford to pay all my bills.
post #202 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I highly doubt you know any truly poor ppl. If they have zero money at the end of paying bills, where is the money for alcohol or drugs coming from? Just magically appears?
I don't know anything about section 8, as I'm in Canada. However, I have certainly known several poor people...many of them quite well. I knew one family who rarely had have food, but the dad had a fifth of tequila every couple of days, and the mom had pot. I've seen the same mom start selling pot, while claiming that she needs the money "to feed my kids". They didn't have much money to start with, but there was enough to feed the kids - just not to do that and buy drugs. (I'm talking specifically about the one family, because I knew them very well for many years.)

Are all poor people like that? Of course not. But, to claim that poor people aren't abusing drugs or alcohol because they don't have the money is totally flawed logic. The ones who are abusing drugs and alcohol spend what money they have on drugs and/or alcohol first, and in many cases, they steal more money to feed the habit.

I used drugs in my late teens, and have spent a lot of time around a lot of drug users. Many of them were poor. Some of them weren't. Some of them weren't poor at first, but ended up poor, because of the drug/alcohol abuse. The ones who ended up poor still managed to get their hands on the drugs, one way or another.
post #203 of 221
I just wanted to pop in here with a friendly reminder to think before we post this is a good topic for discussion, but right now some emotions running high (with good reason). The OP had a good question and I think we should focus on that. If members want to continue talking about Section 8 houseing and such, they may open another thread in the appropriate forum.

post #204 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
The ones who ended up poor still managed to get their hands on the drugs, one way or another.
I guess our definition of poor is different. Some ppl are so poor they cannot afford alcohol or drugs, not even a decent hairbrush.
Yes, if you are an addict, you will find a way, but not all poor ppl are addicts.
post #205 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
However statistically and historically neighborhoods and areas with govt subsideized housing have higher crime rates? Why dont you explain how that happens?
I already did. Many neighborhoods, like yours, won't allow Section 8 in. Often the only landlords who will do Section 8 are the ones that are having trouble renting their property BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THERE because of drugs, living conditions, crime, etc. If a landlord is willing to do Section 8, he is virtually guaranteed his units will stay full because there is no end of poor people in this country.

Section 8 housing didn't CAUSE these problems. Section 8 came in to already-troubled areas because no one else consistently wanted to live there.
post #206 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I highly doubt you know any truly poor ppl. If they have zero money at the end of paying bills, where is the money for alcohol or drugs coming from? Just magically appears?

I know for me, the lease I signed says that if I get any disconnect notice it is grounds for immediate eviction. I can't not afford to pay all my bills.
I hear what you aere saying but having worked with the homeless and fomerly homeless in Chicago, I know that in my experience people with addictions will find a way to get the money to fuel their addiction. In many cases it means taking the bill money and using it to buy drugs. I also worked with women who had been involved in prostitution and many of them bratered sexual favors for drugs. So IMO to say that poor people cannot get drugs is not accurate. Sadly drugs will be gotten to the exclusion of anything else.

Shay
post #207 of 221
I do agree that this thread needs to be closed. I think its hurting more than helping.
post #208 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I guess our definition of poor is different. Some ppl are so poor they cannot afford alcohol or drugs, not even a decent hairbrush.
Yes, if you are an addict, you will find a way, but not all poor ppl are addicts.
I'm not sure why you think our definition of poor is different. These kids had one pair of pants each, a handful of shirts, one jacket apiece (given to them by friends). I never saw them buy a new hairbrush in five years. The mom went years without eyeglasses. They often didn't have food on the table. They were poor. That's why she sold drugs. She'd get a certain amount "fronted", and then sell enough to cover it, and smoke the rest.

I never said all poor people are addicts. I never implied it, either. I simply stated that being poor does not preclude the abuse of drugs/alcohol.
post #209 of 221
Whoops - sorry Ms. Mom.

With respect to the OP - no, I wouldn't send my kids to live with their grandparents for a better school. If it was a matter of getting them out of a dangerous school, then yes, I would. I certainly would if it would keep us from homelessness, as in MITB's situation! That's a drastic scenario, and I'd want my kids to be kept safe and sheltered and fed.

However, in just day to day terms, with no crisis situation - my mom raised her kids. She's 63, and finds it very tiring to deal with kids day in, day out. She'd do it if it were necessary, but I think she's entitled to some rest. I'd miss my kids an awful lot, too. Childhood is too short as it is...
post #210 of 221

This is not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
Yes I do. Because the govt gives me no guarantees about who will live in my home. If we allowed homeowners to accept sec 8 vouchers, there would be no control on who lived here.
I do understand your desire to protect your property, and your property values. But the government would not be choosing a tenant for your house, should you be open to that... only YOU can do that. Only YOU can decide WHO will reside in your house.

EVEN if you walk into the Housing Office in your town and announce you'd like to offer up your home for section 8 occupancy, YOU still are the one who takes applications and decides who you might want to accept based on your own research of their references, credit (yeah, some of us actually have good credit!), etc., and you can change your mind at the last second, and you can evict them for cause at any time. That's the fact. The tenant candidate still has to put up the security and last month's rent monies, somehow. They sign for responsibility. Not Housing. The RENT contract is signed between landlord and housing, because housing PAYS the landlord. If the tenant has a "co-pay," and they don't pay, the landlord can evict. Right now. Landlords do not give up any control or rights to their prop in dealing with Section 8.

I was formerly a Realtor. Many so-called "Investors" SEEK the Section 8 Free Ride because it is guaranteed on-time rent, and they actually have to do very little to pass an inspection. The most basic home can pass; it just can't be UNSAFE, tumble-down, fire-hazard, or non-working utils or appliances. These "investors" would be called "Slumlords," and this country is full of them.

Your husband worked in such a neighborhood, and so I understand your mistaken blanket remarks about Sec 8. And, I am so very sorry about your brother... what a terrible, terrible loss you have suffered.

Tenants get stuck there not because they love the crime-ridden neighborhood, but because their Sec 8 vouchers have no currency in most neighborhoods, for the reasons that you yourself describe. It is due to landlords being uninformed of the facts. And in your case, quite understandably very angry and terribly hurt by what you have come off as sounding like you believe applies to most, if not all, Section 8 voucher users.

BTW, I said in a previous post that my rent is paid 199% by housing. I meant 100%, for the time present, as I am unemployed and have a young child. When I had an income, I did pay about a third of the total rent.

Again, let me offer my sincere condolences, On The Fence, for your tragic loss. I have several brothers, and if I lost any to such a crime, I would probably be on a lifelong rampage.
post #211 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Ppl in poverty don't have the money nor the means to purchase drugs/alcohol.

Wow, talk about a blanket statement. This is untrue for a fairly large portion of people.
My next door squatters (who are not on Section 8, as they are squatting) are in poverty and seem to have come up with money for drugs and alcohol every time I see them.
post #212 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I highly doubt you know any truly poor ppl. If they have zero money at the end of paying bills, where is the money for alcohol or drugs coming from? Just magically appears?

I know for me, the lease I signed says that if I get any disconnect notice it is grounds for immediate eviction. I can't not afford to pay all my bills.
Do you really need an explanation for how low income people get drugs and alcohol?

Contrary to what you seem to think I know far too many people who have little to no money at the end of paying bills.
post #213 of 221
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I guess our definition of poor is different. Some ppl are so poor they cannot afford alcohol or drugs, not even a decent hairbrush.
Yes, if you are an addict, you will find a way, but not all poor ppl are addicts.

You are absolutely correct MITB and noone on this thread said all poor people were addicts.
post #214 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post
OnTheFence: You repeatedly say that if you rent to people with Section 8 you don't get to screen the tenants. THIS IS AN UNTRUTH. Because you said this, I downloaded the landlord handbook for Alabama and looked through it. On page 3, in bold, there is the following statement:

Owners are encouraged to carefully screen prospective tenants.

Here is the link: http://www.habd.org/LandlordHandbook.pdf

It took me all of 5 minutes to find this, why did you not do any research before you went shooting off your mouth about being required to rent to druggies by accepting Section 8 housing? You know that there are people on this board who are on Section 8. Don't you think it is bad form to make sweeping generalizations like that? It's not as if everyone in a group of people are all the same. Or just because some are druggies all are.
Okay, I see where it say that I get to screen the tenets -- so clearly I am wrong on this point, still I live in a place where it restricts me from renting to anyone who has section 8 vouchers. I chose, yes I said that, CHOSE to live in a place with this restriction. I have clearly put WHY the restriction is there, and I AGREE WITH IT because historical and statistical evidence is there to support it.
post #215 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I highly doubt you know any truly poor ppl. If they have zero money at the end of paying bills, where is the money for alcohol or drugs coming from? Just magically appears?

I know for me, the lease I signed says that if I get any disconnect notice it is grounds for immediate eviction. I can't not afford to pay all my bills.
When we were growing up we were friends with people who lived in their truck. Six people lived in a truck with a covered bed. None of the parents worked, but the father always had alcohol. My DH comes from extreme poverty -- yet his father always had alcohol too. The list goes on and on -- even in extreme poverty people can get drugs and alcohol.
post #216 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
I guess our definition of poor is different. Some ppl are so poor they cannot afford alcohol or drugs, not even a decent hairbrush.
Yes, if you are an addict, you will find a way, but not all poor ppl are addicts.
That is what we have been saying.
post #217 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie View Post

Section 8 housing didn't CAUSE these problems. Section 8 came in to already-troubled areas because no one else consistently wanted to live there.
This isnt true for where I live. I can actually pin point areas in our city that were perfectly safe until people began buying up properties in those area as "investments" during the early 80s when interest rates were higher and a lot of people lost their jobs and decided to take section 8 vouchers to have "guaranteed" occupants in the homes. My city isn't the lone one in America this happened in.
post #218 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viewfinder View Post
I do understand your desire to protect your property, and your property values. But the government would not be choosing a tenant for your house, should you be open to that... only YOU can do that. Only YOU can decide WHO will reside in your house.
Just so you know, its not just about the personal control over my particular property, but the entire neighborhood. That is one of the reasons for the rule too. Just call us all snobs and what not, but here is one thing we know -- if our neighbor sales their home, we know that the person purchasing it 1)must qualify for the loan or 2)can pay full price for the home and 3) will abide by all the covenants and restrictions. If my neighbors lease (and yes several do lease their home) we all know that 1) they can afford the rent and 2) they check your credit, employment, etc. and 3) they will abide by all the covenants and the restrictions AND IF they don't they can easily be evicted for breaking their contract. (and yes, renters here have been evicted for not abiding by the covenants and restrictions)
post #219 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viewfinder View Post
Again, let me offer my sincere condolences, On The Fence, for your tragic loss. I have several brothers, and if I lost any to such a crime, I would probably be on a lifelong rampage.
Actually the guy lives not far from me in a half-way house. We do have halfway houses out here believe it or not. (not in our neighborhood, but we actually have one outside our neighborhood on a main road) I've seen him several times and even spoke to him. I forgave him a long time ago, even though he got away with murder.
post #220 of 221

Your child may grow up to be a Section 8 sympathizer

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
Just so you know, its not just about the personal control over my particular property, but the entire neighborhood. That is one of the reasons for the rule too. Just call us all snobs and what not, but here is one thing we know -- if our neighbor sales their home, we know that the person purchasing it 1)must qualify for the loan or 2)can pay full price for the home and 3) will abide by all the covenants and restrictions. If my neighbors lease (and yes several do lease their home) we all know that 1) they can afford the rent and 2) they check your credit, employment, etc. and 3) they will abide by all the covenants and the restrictions AND IF they don't they can easily be evicted for breaking their contract. (and yes, renters here have been evicted for not abiding by the covenants and restrictions)
So could a Section 8 vouchered-renter proudly abide by the CC & Rs in your snobby neighborhood, and they might even be snobbier, and turn other people in for violations. They may be smarter, own a better car, and finer silver and china than you have ever seen or known could exist, handed down through four hundred years of family, and their forebears may have signed the Declaration of Independence, and they may get invited to the White House, and your son may fall in love with and marry their daughter, someday, and your son could be seen as having "married up."

I know you are being attacked, but you represent so many people who's ill-informed attitudes are just horrible, so I am using you as a whipping boy for all the bs that is 'out there.' You just can't imagine the heartbreak of the seeing the stigma of relying on a degree of public assistance trickle down to your children. Because I am in this position, people LIKE YOU are making my life and my child's life less pleasant, because your attitudes are pervasive.
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