Values Differences

[dharmamama]

This isn't related to homeschooling, but I thought I would post it here because I feel like the people in this forum know me better than those in the Parenting forum, in which I don't often participate, do. If it needs to be moved, can it be moved to Adoption? I put it here because I thought I might get more responses than in Adoption.

I'm having trouble figuring out what to do about the differences in the values that my dh and I have and the values that Desta has. For example, my dh and I have always explicitly taught Ramona and Efram that beauty is an internal thing and we have worked really hard (even at their young ages) to show them that cultural ideas about fashion and external beauty are misguided. But to Desta, external beauty is very important, and she talks quite openly about certain people being beautiful and certain people being not beautiful. She criticizes mine and the kids' clothing and constantly talks about wanting to be the most beautiful person wherever we go. It's really starting to affect Ramona, who has really started worrying about her clothes and how she looks. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a self-esteem issue on her part, and I want to deal with that while at the same time minimizing Ramona & Efram's exposure to these ideas.

Another example is that Desta is really into Disney princess stuff, and, while that in itself is tolerable even though dh and I have worked hard to be a non-character home, I have found that the Disney princess stories always have some sort of fighting and good guy/bad guy mentality to them. We had a really disturbing conversation the other day after I read Sleeping Beauty and was talking to the kids about the fact that the prince killed someone and how I didn't like to read about that, and Desta said, "But he only killed a bad person. That's ok. The prince is good." She didn't see at all how killing is not a good thing. This has really started to affect Efram, who has gotten into this "good guy/bad guy" mentality where he wants one of us to be the bad guy so he can fight us.

I am really unsure how to deal with these things for several reasons. A) They bother me so much on a personal level, B) I don't want my kids to have these values, C) I want to talk to the kids about our values but I don't want to make it a "we're good/Desta's bad" situation and D) I don't want to make Desta feel even more like the odd one out in our family.

This is really stressing me, so any advice would be really, really appreciated.

Namaste!

[mama in the forest]

Mama, I know that we do not know each other, but I couldn't read and not respond.

I really understand what you're saying. I've worked hard in my home too, to counteract common societal conceptions about beauty and ideals. And I keep Disney out of my home.

I think if it were me, I would try to look through what she's saying to understand where it's coming from. What do your instincts tell you about her heart? What have her experiences been that would take her in this direction? ....I would spend a lot of time making sure that she saw and heard me making comments about things of beauty that were not particularly commonplace....the wings of a beatle, the spider web in the corner, the way leg hair looks in the sunlight, a nursing bear cub on TV. Beauty is everywhere, both internal and external, and while you may not be able to change what she's focusing on right now in her life, you could try to draw her attention to things of beauty of both categories, hopefully opening her mind to the true definiton of beauty. Your quiet influence will eventually make an impact on her.

[Dar]

I think you're dealing with a whole lot of issues that are sort of layered together...

The "good guy/bad guy" thing is pretty typical at 3 or 4, so I think it's normal and natural for Efram to want the world clearly divided into black and white like that. That's the age of superheroes, too... I think it's just a common way to go through that developmental stage. So even without Desta's thing, Efram might be doing the same stuff...

I think what Desta's doing is developmentally appropriate, too... 12-14 year olds are discovering their own values and challenging the values of their parents, and worrying obsessively about one's appearance is also very normal at that age. It sounds like Desta verbalizes it a lot more than most kids, but I think the issue is the same. And even in this culture, people have different ideas about when killing is okay. It's a topic that's come up with my daughter as well, and we don't entirely see eye-to-eye.

I'm wondering if you could use literature with these issues, or movies. Sometimes it's easier to discuss an issue with an older kids when the discussion is sparked by something like that. I do think you can talk to her about hurting people's feelings, and insist that she not criticize others' clothing choices unless they ask for her opinion (and then I would ask for her opinion, but in more of a "Which of these two sweaters do you think looks best with these pants?" way). I would try to discuss it with an atmosphere of learning about each other's beliefs and values, rather than of trying to convince her, even though it's hard for you. I think values are very persnal things, and I don't think it's okay to tell soneone what theirs must be - but you can have guidelines about what can be said and done, like asking her not to criticize.

Maybe, too, she'd be interested in doing some fashion deisgning, or something? There are ten zillion websites out there that allow you to pick a "doll" and then dress her in different outfits, and some of them let you then talk to others about outfiits or whatever, and one allowed you to "battle" other dolls and vote on whose outfit was best. Maybe she could get some of her needs to critique fashion choices out there...

And as well as talking about your values, I think she'll see you living those value, and that will eventually have a profound effect. It just may take a while...

Oh, and Shelly has stepped down as mod for personal reasons, so we're currently mod-less... so heck, post anything! We can go wild! (yes, and this will be why they take my mod status away, I know it....)

Dar

[**guest**]

Dar, i loved this post.