i am so sad. so angry. my son WILL circ. his boys

[aisraeltax]

no, he isnt a parent yet. his gf's mother had a baby boy today. sorry, but every time i hear of a little boy being born, i cry. its just so sad.
but MY SON, after watching the circ. video, tells me today that his gf's brother will be circ'd tomorrow (he was only born today: ) AND that its "just our culture" and no big deal b/c he can't remember it and its better.

no matter how much i say to him, he wont change his mind.

i am so sad. and i am so angry.

i just need someone to tell this b/c i am crying right now. for the little baby boy tomorrow and for my future grandchildren. at this point, i hope he never has a son. i really do.

i cant believe ANYONE could watch that video and still agree in circ.

[bandgeek]

I can't imagine how you are feeling right now. : I don't have anything to say that will make you feel better, but I couldn't read and not reply.

Hopefully by the time he is having kids, "our culture" will have changed it's views drastically.

[TigerTail]

I am so sorry. :

There's always time. It is hard to shift paradigms sometimes. Poor mama! (I worry about what a son-in-law might say; I am just glad my dd is so used to intact being normal that I can't imagine her letting it happen. But once they are grown, sigh.)

How old is he?

[paquerette]

Hope and pray that you can get to your DIL and convince her?

[aisraeltax]

he tells me i have more important things to worry about right now.
he just refuses to see the inhumanity. i am really angry with him right now.
he's only 16. but i really do hope that he doesnt have any boys.

he just told me if he weren't circ'd right now that he would GO GET CIRC"d.

wtf???

i just stood in his room crying. i know it happens all the time. every day. but i know this little boy will be getting it tomorrow. and i just cant be happy about that.

i dont even feel like going to see him.

oh, and get this. he's 4 weeks "early" (whatever that means...the mom is no AP or NFL at all but thats what my son told me).

poor baby.

i just dont know what else to say. i have talked until im blue in the face with him.

he's seen the video. he knows there is no pain medication. he knows they are strapped down. he knows there is no health benefit (thats what i told him..i dont think he believes me).

i dont know...maybe i shouldnt worry about it. but G-d, this sux!

[charmander]

Originally Posted by aisraeltax

he just told me if he weren't circ'd right now that he would GO GET CIRC"d.

wtf???

That's because he is 16. Sixteen. I would say anything to piss my mom off at age 16.

I think when he is older, wiser, and ready to be a father, he will not circumcise. Please don't judge his reaction right now.

[Jillie]

I'm so sorry. Keep talking tho, as hopefully it will be a long time until he has to truly make this decision for his potential son. People change a lot as they age and if he keeps hearing how wrong it is and how sorry you are, he may begin to change his mind. A 16 yo boy isn't usually known for his empathy toward small babies, but a man facing his own childs unnecessary pain, (after years of hearing how wrong it is from mom) may feel very differently. Keep going mama!

[aira]

[StephandOwen]

It's possible he's doing it just to get a rise out of you. He found your button- and he's pushing it every chance he can. If I were you I'd take a less emotional approach. If he says he's going to circ his kids just say "oh yeah?" or "oh really?" or something like that. Don't even start the argument because it might be just what he's looking for. Don't fall into that trap! When he's older and more mature THEN you can talk to him about it and see if he's changed his mind. But at 16.... their minds change every 5 minutes and they'll do anything to control their parents. Like a puppet on a string he knows how to get you worked up

[Tinijocaro]

He is still of the age that he must go against anything you say. Once he gets into his twenties, he will realize that you really ARE smarter than he is, and will actually listen to you. Hopefully he can wait that long to have a baby. Keep talking about it, without pushing, he'll hear you and remember.

[TigerTail]

There is about a hundred years between 16 & 20 alone. Don't give up yet. If grown men have trouble accepting the fact of their circs and reconciling what happened, how much harder is it for a 16 yr old just trying on his new adult body for size?

[springbabes]

He's hopefully a long way off from having kids. I think there's a good chance he'll change his mind. My brother gave me a hard time about leaving my DS intact, but then when his own son was born 2 years later, they didn't circ him. His wife is pretty AP, luckily. So, really there's hope .

[~Kira~]

- Kira

[Arduinna]

I wouldn't take it seriously. He is 16. And the mama will have a say so also when the time comes. But haven't we all said stuff that is appalling to our parents as teens? And knowing that you are an intactivist kinda makes me wonder if this is partly a way for him to kinda show his independance, right now. I have a 16 year old dd kids this age are trying on their personal power and decision making. Things they say today aren't concrete, just like alot of it wasn't for us.

[aisraeltax]

thanks mamas. much of that i knew in my heart, but its so hurtful to hear from your son...about your yet to be even thought about gc..yk?

and the little boy tomorrow...just makes me so sad. i just dont understand why they are still doing routine male circ. i really dont. is it really about the money now???

[cristina63303]

I'm trying to look at things from his perspective for a second: Could you be getting on his nerves with all your natural stuff - especially since girlfriend comes from a not-so-natural background that he may perceive as "cool".

I guess I keep trying to make the point that it's critical for intactivism to separate the genital mutilation issue from other "crunchy" issues. If they are perceived to be lumped togehter and the recepient of the information doesn't particularly identify with "crunchy" then the importance of saying no to circumcision will be devalued.

Don't shoot me: I believe in vax. I just do. I trust my doctor(s). They believe in vax. My kids have never had a negative reaction (not one that I could tell at least) to lots and lots of vax. I don't believe in homeopathy. I think it's all placebo. Sorry to be so blunt. I don't believe in taking too many meds either. My doctors know to avoid antibiotics unless they are truly necessary. I trust them, they have proven themselves with their attitude over the years. I think it's fine if my kids get a bruise as a consequence of a fall - i don't think one has to run and get the arnika sugar pearls immediately.

Based on this mindset, if I knew nothing about circumcision and lived in USA, I probably would find it extremely difficult to trust ANY medical information coming from someone who says no to vax and likes homeopathy.

And yet, I'm rabidly anti-circumcision. I know it's not only unnecessary but DAMAGING. I trust all my doctors - they have the same opinion and I did not specifically pick them because of that.

So this may be what's happening to not only your DS, but his girlfriend's mom as well. I hope this is not sounding as if I'm blaming you for anything (I'm not). I'm just trying to broaden the angles from which this can be analyzed.

Give your son time. Cut him some slack. You will have new opportunities to speak about this with him. Try to make him see that this is not yet another NFL hippy thing his mom is into. This is serious stuff. It's great that he's ok being circumcised. But if he weren't he'd be out of luck. OTOH, had he been intact, he would have retained both options. Try to make him see that - during a less passionate exchange!

Lots of luck to you. I think your grandkids have a good chance.

[njeb]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

I wouldn't take it seriously. He is 16. And the mama will have a say so also when the time comes. But haven't we all said stuff that is appalling to our parents as teens? And knowing that you are an intactivist kinda makes me wonder if this is partly a way for him to kinda show his independance, right now. I have a 16 year old dd kids this age are trying on their personal power and decision making. Things they say today aren't concrete, just like alot of it wasn't for us.

:
I remember when the 16 year old dd of a LLL leader swore up and down that she would NEVER nurse her baby!!! : Six years later, she had a baby, and guess what? She nursed!
Don't give up hope!

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by cmd

That's because he is 16. Sixteen. I would say anything to piss my mom off at age 16.

I think when he is older, wiser, and ready to be a father, he will not circumcise. Please don't judge his reaction right now.

I agree - is it possible he's just trying to "rebel" in a way?

: about his gf's brother, poor baby....and being early his nervous system is already out of whack...man. :

[ShaggyDaddy]

At 16 I was not emotionally ready to admit that there was something wrong with my penis.

At 26 I am a raging intactivist.

[aisraeltax]

Originally Posted by cristina63303

Based on this mindset, if I knew nothing about circumcision and lived in USA, I probably would find it extremely difficult to trust ANY medical information coming from someone who says no to vax and likes homeopathy.

wow. you are of course entitled to your opinion re: vax and i dont want this to get off base, but i feel exactly the OPPOSITE of you. Injecting mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, aborted fetal cells and other toxins in my baby is not something i am going to simply trust my son's dr. to do. I have spent over a year researching this issue and know MUCH MORE about it than any pediatrician i have ever met. I am not well versed on homeopathy; however, i am on a path to learning and have foudn the little that I have used to be benefical with no side effects, which is not what i have learned about Tylenol, Motrin and many other OTC medications. Just another perspective but i needed to state this. Thank you for the sentiment in the rest of your post though.

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

At 16 I was not emotionally ready to admit that there was something wrong with my penis.
At 26 I am a raging intactivist.

thank you for your statement.

i know that i have more chances. Last night was just very emotional for me. I guess i dont understand men's minds, at this point my son has an immature man's mind. i couldnt comprehend how anyone could watch that video and still be willing to do that to a child. but im a mama. i have to let this issue go b/c i just cant bear to think of little baby boys enduring this surgery any longer. it is so barbaric and inhumane.