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Big-Picture Advocacy/Intactivism!!!  

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I've been thinking about the Baby-Friendly Hospital Initiative

(it's an effort to support breastfeeding in hospitals by training staff, fixing policies to support the nursing relationship, and stop routine use of formula and pacifiers: http://www.babyfriendlyusa.org/eng/10steps.html )

and thinking the next step is a uniform nationwide effort to do the same for keeping babies intact.

Ideally, the new policy would have two steps:
1.) educate the entire staff about why RIC is being abandoned.
2.) stop doing them, period.

Do you think that would be too big a goal?

I tried to back up and think of something sort of in-between that might be have a chance of being adopted.
Looking at the ten steps in the BFHI, here are some ideas I have for a package we could promote in hospitals:

-RIC is never offered, suggested, or discussed in a positive manner

-all staff that comes into contact with parents and babies must be trained in the care of the intact penis (and the reasons RIC is being abandoned!)

-inform all pregnant women & their partners about the benefits and management of intact babies

-in order to obtain an RIC, the parent must:
1) watch a video of one being done,
2) sign paperwork that acknowledges full responsibility if the baby has (insert details and/or photos of male and female circ-based injuries/malformities here) medical/psychological/sexual/legal issues in the future as a result of the RIC and acknowledges that it is medically contra-indicated
3) acknowledge receipt of some informational take-home materials
4) go through a waiting period (three weeks? three months?)

if the circ still takes place:

-adequate pain relief must be provided during and after the procedure (is this even possible? )
-the absolute mildest version of the procedure must be done (there are degrees, right?)


I'm already having second thoughts about this approach- thinking through such details is making me sick. : I don't want it to ever happen, anywhere, so I hate to think of discussing things like pain relief and such- but... an all-or-nothing approach doesn't help the little guys whose parents haven't been converted yet, right?:

Should we just pressure hospitals (one by one) to abandon RIC? No negotiating?

Or could we skip that and work state by state to get it made illegal?

What do you all think?

Are these sorts of things already happening, and I'm just in the dark? :

(Is there already a thread here like this? I had a hard time doing a search for the concept!) (Should such a conversation go somewhere else because of the policies of the board?)

I like the BFHI approach because it will do a lot of good in the hospitals that adopt it, but the rules aren't so extreme that nobody will go along with it. And once a nurse/OB/PT/etc is trained in the framework of the Baby Friendly policies, they carry it forward when they move on to another hospital and will either fit right in with the same established rules, or be a seed for change if the new hospital hasn't adopted the rules yet.
post #2 of 27
One of the birth initiatives out there already says that circumcision should not be done, except for religious circumcision (or medical necessity).

Is that BFHI, or another one? I'll have to see if I can find it.

Ok, its not, but its this one:: http://www.motherfriendly.org/MFCI/steps/
Ten Steps of the Mother-Friendly Childbirth Initiative for Mother-Friendly Hospitals, Birth Centers, and Home Birth Services

#9. Discourages non-religious circumcision of the newborn.(References)

The link above has all 10 guidelines and references.

Jessica
post #3 of 27
I think it's a great idea! Don't count on it happening any time in the near future, though. The BFHI was started back in the late 80's when I was a LLL leader, and today only a handful of American hospitals have achieved BFHI status. The progress has been glacial, IMO. :
post #4 of 27
I also want to cheer you on...I think its a great idea. But like the pp said- it won't be anytime soon. The big gorilla is in the room.....
post #5 of 27
I love this idea, but how would we go about it ??
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 
I've been thinking.

Awake in bed the other night, I remembered when the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists changed their stance on VBAC. They decided that it was more dangerous than previously thought, and added a list of new staffing (etc) requirements for hospitals who offer VBAC as an option. They changed their policy, and with one paragraph wiped out the VBAC option for rural women across the country!


The American Academy of Pediatrics does not technically recommend RIC, but their statement is very weak and does not rule out the possibility of benefits from RIC. They do mention analgesia, but do not specify what type is adequate.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;103/3/686

Should we work on the AAP to improve its statement and policy? Come up with our own wording and put on the pressure?
I don't completely understand how these organizations run things from afar, but what if we could wipe out RIC with a paragraph the way ACOG decimated VBAC?

Does anyone know how these things work?

There must already be efforts like this out there... I really should look around more...
post #7 of 27
Worth a bump.
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Jessica, I meant to say- I didn't know the Mother-Friendly Childbirth Initiative included the line on circumcision, or that it included the BFHI within it! Very cool.

I'm more familiar with the BFHI because I've been part of a group working to get our local hospital to adopt it. Yes, it's very slow going, but it does require a lot of change, a lot of people dedicated to it, and money to make it all work out. Even simple things like the proper storage of what formula they do have on hand can present issues that take f o r e v e r to solve.

But think njeb, where would we be if we didn't have these specific guidelines to work toward? Any progress we'd be making right now would be sporadic, based on the staff of the moment, and prone to setbacks whenever the staff changed!
And slow change is lasting change, right?
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramlita View Post
Jessica, I meant to say- I didn't know the Mother-Friendly Childbirth Initiative included the line on circumcision, or that it included the BFHI within it! Very cool.

I'm more familiar with the BFHI because I've been part of a group working to get our local hospital to adopt it. Yes, it's very slow going, but it does require a lot of change, a lot of people dedicated to it, and money to make it all work out. Even simple things like the proper storage of what formula they do have on hand can present issues that take f o r e v e r to solve.

But think njeb, where would we be if we didn't have these specific guidelines to work toward? Any progress we'd be making right now would be sporadic, based on the staff of the moment, and prone to setbacks whenever the staff changed!
And slow change is lasting change, right?
Oh, I agree these guidelines are good. It's just that they were started back when I was a LLL leader in the late 80's, and it seems like things are moving too slowly for my taste. I'm feeling a bit discouraged. :
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Well, if we all got discouraged and gave up, then where would we be?



We have no idea how many hospitals are working on it, or when they'll finally make it. I know of several, and I live in a tiny, rural state!
post #11 of 27
Thread Starter 
More thoughts...

if going after the AAP is too big an undertaking (and I suspect it would take pressure from physicians, and not us layman parents, to affect change there) maybe the next-best thing would be to work on the states that still pay for RIC with Medicaid?
It seems like most states that pay for it have some kind of a group working on the issue. Is there a way we can support these groups from afar? Maybe a big letter-writing campaign?
If this makes sense to y'all, I could contact a couple of these local groups and offer assistance, and see how we could be useful.

If this gets off the ground, maybe an Intactivism stickie with info about how to help with each project? If we pressure one state at a time, I think we could have an impressive effect.
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 
post #13 of 27
Great IDea! Can we start with Connecticut?
Carolyn
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Sure!
Do you have info about what's happening there now?
Let's get started!! :
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
I'm having trouble finding info for CT- maybe I'll delve deeper into Vermont. They seem to be in the process, but encountering some resistance.

I'll also be checking in with Blue Cross/Blue Shield since my DH is covered by them...
post #16 of 27
Thanks for volunteering to help to end Medicaid funding of non-therapeutic circumcision. In my opinion that's a very effective way to help protect boys from circumcision.

Please feel free to send me a PM or email for more information about ending Medicaid funding of circumcision. If there are other volunteers in your state working on the issue, I can help you get in touch with them.

Another person to contact for information about ending Medicaid funding of circumcision is Amber Craig with NoCirc of North Carolina. Her contact information is on the NoCirc web site.

Jeff Brown
NoCirc of California
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks!
Would you be willing to share some advice here?

Is it helpful to have people from out of state writing letters to a given state, or is it better to rally people from within the specific state we work on?
I'm in VT, so that's why I've been leaning that way.
It looks like there was a bill introduced on the subject,

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/legd...ntro/H-733.HTM

but I haven't figured out whether I've seen the most recent update on it.
post #18 of 27
Sounds like quite a job, but best of luck...
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
It's already been done in at least, what, sixteen states?
Why not keep moving forward with it?
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramlita View Post
It's already been done in at least, what, sixteen states?
Yes, Medicaid in the following 16 states does not pay for non-therapeutic circumcisions: Arizona, California, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, Utah, and Washington.

Quote:
Why not keep moving forward with it?
People in many states are working hard to end Medicaid funding of unnecessary circumcision in their state. The more volunteers who help with the project, the sooner Medicaid in all 50 states will stop paying for non-therapeutic circumcision.
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