How do you talk to the older generation?

[phoebemommy]

I'm thinking about family here, ones who circed their sons because that was just what was done. How do you talk to them about the importance of intactness without stirring up guilty defensiveness? Or maybe it's impossible? But how do you go about these discussions?

My tendency is to avoid sticky discussions like these with family, but I anticipate that I'll be approached at Christmas about our decision not to circ our new DS. They're the type to be all up in everybody's business about everything. So instead of being my typical tongue-tied, avoidant, and polite self, I want to have a plan for what I'll say so I won't go away wishing I could have a do-over. It's not that they'll question our decision, but they'll want to know all about it and they'll surely bring up all the bunk they've heard about why circ is healthier and so forth. I don't want to drop the ball, particularly because there are cousins nearing childbearing age who I want to set a good example for.

[kldliam]

How do you talk to them about the importance of intactness without stirring up guilty defensiveness?

The same way that you would talk to a concrete wall. Good Luck!

[Lula's Mom]

If I knew it was going to come up, and that I'd have a chance to educate a whole bunch of people at once... I would definitely bring multiple copies of the Mothering reprint with me. That way, when the subject arose, I could gently say "It used to be recommended, back in your day, but a lot of new information has come out in the last few years. Here, I brought you all something to read."

http://www.mothering.com/shop/reprints.html Scroll down and you'll see the one, just up from the bottom, with the sweet baby boy picture. It has two Fleiss articles plus the fantastic articles from last year's pregnancy issue. Really great stuff.

[DahliaRW]

First, reply with "this subject is not up for discussion". Then hand them a copy of Fleiss' article and any other stuff that says circ is bad and say "This/these articles explain why circumcision is unnecessary and even unhealthy for the child." Walk away. If they bring it up again say "this subject is not up for discussion" and then change the subject, even something absurd like "the grass out in the yard looks like it could use a good mowing" etc. If they continue, just keep repeating somethign about the subject you chose (i.e. "the grass is really long, I wonder who I shoudl talk to about it").

[TigerTail]

Shock & horror is my first line of offense. "OMG no, people don't still do that, they've known that's unnecessary & traumatic for years. Why, in the 80s, they still did open heart surgery on babies with no pain relief! Can you imagine?" and take it from there on the riff that BABIES ARE PEOPLE WITH FEELINGS & RIGHTS. "I'm sorry the state of medical science was so far behind when your kids were little!"

[InDaPhunk]

You might be surprised. You might have more intact relatives than you realize. Or the parents of said relatives were probably intact. Who discusses these things so who really knows ?

Other than that, be coherant, direct, and blunt. Tell them to MTOB. Repeat ad nauseum. Then leave if necessary.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by DahliaRW

even something absurd like "the grass out in the yard looks like it could use a good mowing"

<half-joking>Eh... that might not be the most opportune subject, given the potential (albeit way off-base) metaphore. :-P</half-joking>

[Arduinna]

The thing that has always worked for me was citing my LTR with an intact man. If they are still pro circ it's usually because they have never seen or been with an intact man. And I toss out the nature knows best, we aren't born with extra parts.

[MonicaS]

IME, you cannot be held accountable for how they feel about a fact. The fact is, we now know better, so we are doing better and circ is totally unnecessary. My MIL circ'd her boys, but I didn't let that stop me from making it very clear that I am 100% against circumcision in front of her and several female relatives, from DH's g-ma down to his cousin. It is not my responsibility to make sure that she doesn't feel guilt over her decision.

Hopefully, your friends/family will have more tact than to blurt out questions or comments about your son's penis that other people can hear. If your family is loud and opinionated like mine(or DH's), or other feisty groups I've been in during "hot topics", you will be lucky to have the "spotlight" for more than a second. Once the topic gets released to the masses, they will probably be too busy talking loudly at each other declaring their positions that they won't really listen to anything anyone is saying. In that second that people may be waiting for your reply, I would say something quick and effective and w/ the expression of utter shock like, "OMG, why would I do that to my son?!" I have never been in a group where they are brazen enough to ask such a personal question and then just sit and listen to you discuss it.

Also, again in my experience, the questions you plan to hear and for which you create great replies are NOT the questions they will end up asking. You have to be ready to be confident in any reply you give them. Confidence w/ your comments and answers really, really helps to quelch further probing. Also, don't feel rushed to reply to a surprising question. You can take a second to think.

[njeb]

Good for you for wanting to educate your family!

One thing to consider: Are these people who are going to be changing your baby's diaper regularly, or are they only going to see him during visits, holidays, etc.? If they're going to have any ongoing contact with him, and not just occasional visits, you'll want to educate them on the proper care of the intact penis.

Good luck with your family!

[phoebemommy]

Originally Posted by njeb

Good for you for wanting to educate your family!

One thing to consider: Are these people who are going to be changing your baby's diaper regularly, or are they only going to see him during visits, holidays, etc.? If they're going to have any ongoing contact with him, and not just occasional visits, you'll want to educate them on the proper care of the intact penis.

Good luck with your family!

Thanks for all the suggestions, everybody!

On this last point -- I already made the mistake of forgetting to tell my MIL about intact penis care. I think I forgot because it so obviously should be left alone, when you look at it, but of course, she went and messed with it (which I found out once I remembered and told her not to) and a week or so later there was redness and swelling (which seemed to bother me a lot more than it bothered DS, but still). I don't know if she caused it, but it freaked me out enough that I've decided nobody else will be changing his diapers but me. This is the kind of family that if my MIL gets to change a diaper, then everybody else will want their chance, and I don't want to have to talk about my kid's penis with 20 different people. I also worry that a few people will think they know better than me and do very bad things. So anyway, yep, I'm hyper-aware of the diaper change issue!

[calngavinsmom]

Hi there. When our first was born, the topic came up with my MIL and she was saying that she didn't even remember being asked, it was just done.(This was back in 1973-77) I said something to the effect of how things have changed in 30 years and how they actually recomend AGAINST it now (CPS). We touched on briefly how it was painful/unneccesary ect. But that was about it. She seemed to be pretty receptive to the "new way" and it hasn't come up since.

I think a matter-of-fact approach is best in mixed company (if you don't know who is pro or anti). Just something like "It used to be recomended and thought to be healthier and cleaner, but it's not anymore" is a good way not to offend people who have circed sons years ago.

Good luck to you!
Tara

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by calngavinsmom

I think a matter-of-fact approach is best in mixed company (if you don't know who is pro or anti). Just something like "It used to be recomended and thought to be healthier and cleaner, but it's not anymore" is a good way not to offend people who have circed sons years ago.

I like this... I'm so hoping it comes up at Christmas! Must print off some of those resources too... two of my cousins just got married (NOT to each other : ) and I would love to give them something since they may have to decide relatively soon They live in the deep south-east so rates are pretty high

love and peace.

[Pandora114]

Both sides of the family are non circing here.

Neither my DH's family nor my own. So all I gotta say is "Yeah back then they told you to pull back to clean, but now they figured out it's stuck to the head like a fingernail is to the finger so nothing can get in anyway so just wipe it like a finger"

[coloradoalice]

Well........my plan with my family, should they ever dare to ask, is to look horrified, explain that Ian had been born perfect and didn't need any surgery at all and before they can get a word out turn the tables on them. I will go on and on about how sorry I am that they had to have surgery on the baby and that he wasn't good enough as he was.........or something to that effect. I intend to completely play dumb about the fact that anyone would possibly want to have their child circumcised just because. I will only focus on the fact that the only reason to have surgery is because of a problem. I will repeat over and over again, "poor baby".

But in all honesty, I don't think anyone will ever ask. My family knows better.