Re-visiting DH's witnessing of circ in hospital...

[MoonJelly]

So DH and I were having a conversation this evening about circ (brought about b/c of two cousins expecting babies, at least one likely to be a boy). DH, who is circ'd but has always been anti-circ, reminded me about how he had to witness a circ being done while we were in the hospital when I had my daughter (I made him follow the nurses everywhere when they took her out of the room). Well, the one time it was into a room where they were performing a circ. DH said he will never, ever be able to erase the images from his mind. He said it made him physically ill and it took all he had to keep himself together for my daughter's and my sake. He said if there was ever any doubt in his mind, it was completely gone after that moment. He said the worst part was not when the child was screaming, but when he just stopped (and obviously went into shock). : I said, well they don't always use anesthetic, and my DH said, "oh, there was no anesthetic anywhere to be seen." Not to mention the parents were nowhere around either.

Anyway, even though I had heard the story a number of times before (I mean, it's been over two years since then) it made me particularly upset this evening. And it really made DH upset telling it this time. Neither of us are having a very easy time getting past it at the moment.

And another thing is, I am now wondering this. Is it the case that most of the time in hospitals they really just take the baby away and most of the time parents choose not to go with the child? Or are they talked out of going? Or encouraged not to go?

I just feel like, wouldn't there be far less circs if all parents were present at the time they begin the procedure?

I know this is rambling. I guess I am just really down right now about this subject and it's just kind of hurting at the moment to think of the circ'd baby boys and their pain. And frankly, I am also hurting for DH who really seems to re-live the experience any time it comes up.

Thanks for listening.

[ared1]

And another thing is, I am now wondering this. Is it the case that most of the time in hospitals they really just take the baby away and most of the time parents choose not to go with the child? Or are they talked out of going? Or encouraged not to go?

A co-worker said that when they came to take her son for his circ that she just couldn't go in there and watch that. She said she would have lost her mind to hear her baby scream. Then why did you let them do it?? I was taking my son to get his pictures taken and the place they do it is right behind the nursery. The circ room is off to the left just before the photo room. I lost it and started crying because they had a baby in there and he was screaming. They didn't even shut the door. :

[christifav]

My husband and I were touring the hospitals in town when we were pregnant last time and one of our questions was, "can we keep baby with us at all times?" The nurse giving the tour said that a parent can accompany the baby to all well-baby checks and lab draws, but that no parents were allowed in the circumcision room.

No wonder people still do it. They aren't ALLOWED to know how awful it is. Business might decrease if parents knew the truth.

[Danasmom]

Originally Posted by christifav

My husband and I were touring the hospitals in town when we were pregnant last time and one of our questions was, "can we keep baby with us at all times?" The nurse giving the tour said that a parent can accompany the baby to all well-baby checks and lab draws, but that no parents were allowed in the circumcision room.

No wonder people still do it. They aren't ALLOWED to know how awful it is. Business might decrease if parents knew the truth.

Exactly! I think it's meant to be like that so that they can do the circumcision without someone passing out, stopping it or else they just don't want parents to know how awfull it is! God forbid they learn something and ecome informed. I feel so sorry for your dh having to witness that event. It made me upset just reading the story.

I feel very strongly that the way to stop this is to educate parents. I would just love to rent a space in a hospital, use power point, photos, restraining board, instruments, the whole nine yards.. Then give a talk about what circumcision is really about. I believe this is the only way to penetrate the medical establishment with it's lies and misconceptions.
Carolyn

[kldliam]

Op: And another thing is, I am now wondering this. Is it the case that most of the time in hospitals they really just take the baby away and most of the time parents choose not to go with the child? Or are they talked out of going? Or encouraged not to go?

Yes, most of the time doctor's don't want parents around when they are busy with a knife and a baby. I have heard Doctor's say (in closed online MD list's that i have been able to sneak into) that sometimes the parent's ask to be there, and they don't like it at all. If you were busy literally torturing a child for money...would you want mom and pop there?

[kldliam]

Christifav: Business might decrease if parents knew the truth.

You are darn right it would! Plus if mom and dad are there (it is they who have the emotional connection to baby) and that can really distract the doctor who needs to remain cold and callous to baby's pain in order to get the job done. He doesn't need to be feeling guilty for causing the unecessary pain & suffering of a child or does he???

[Mamm2]

I still have not watched the video in my siggy. I can barely look at the pictures I have. I start crying and get so upset. How is this possible that in this country, everyday boys are mutiliated like that and everyone turns a blind eye?

[glongley]

In my hospital, actually a fair number of parents accompany the babies who are getting circ'ed, mostly dads, but sometimes moms. All the docs use dorsal penile nerve blocks for the circumcisions, or I doubt they would be allowing parents in.

The anesthesia keeps most kids quiet enough that at least from the screaming point of view, it must seem "not really all that bad." Of course, the use of anesthesia, while taking away the obvious barbarism of the act, sets up a veil of civility over the whole thing, which obscures the subtle but profound ethical violation that is going on, never acknowledged, of course.

Meanwhile, the doc keeps up a chummy, guy-talk patter, about how his oldest boy is at West Point, his latest fishing trip, or "How 'bout them Broncos?"

I often wonder what the dad is thinking, nervous for sure, probably viscerally shocked by seeing his son vivisected before his very eyes, by which time its too late to stop the madness. But charmed by the power of the seeming normalcy, he unconsciously knows he has to stuff his feelings down to get through it, breathing a sigh of relief when it over, convincing himself that it was a good thing to do, that it really wasn't all that bad, proud that his son is now like him... and never allow the nightmare of what he just saw, or what he vaguely glimpses from his own primal memories, to come to consciousness.

Socialization into circumcision complacency and the "adamant father syndrome".

Gillian

[Quirky]

I think there are a lot of medical practices that parents aren't necessarily allowed to be present for....for example, when my newborn was in the NICU, I wasn't allowed to be with him when they changed his IVs. It freaking SUCKED.

But ITA that if parents were allowed to see what was going on, the rates would drop. OTOH, I personally know two families where one or both parents were present, anesthesia was used, and both would circ again. I also know one family where the newborn son was in the NICU and dad witnessed a circ, and was aghast....so I thought baby's foreskin was safe....but no, they had him circed at the same time as a hernia repair just two weeks ago. Because he was under general anesthesia, that made it all OK. (And this is DESPITE reading the Mothering articles, hearing from the ped that circ isn't necessary, etc.)

[pdx.mothernurture]

When I worked in a hospital birth center, many times at least one parent did accompany the baby, usually the father. Some form of anesthetic was always used, but it varied in effectiveness. A few instances stick out in my mind...once, where the baby screamed and cried quite a bit but no parent witnessed it, and when the doctor and I got back to the room he told the parents that they baby was a champ and didn't cry. LIE. Another time I remember a Dad who twistedly insisted on taking before and after photos for the baby book...another set of very young parents who wanted to videotape the circumcision, and one time where a dad stepped out and passed out in the hall.

Jen