Help with Strep Throat please! Update post 10

[traycanadian]

Cross posted in Health and Healing.

DH was diagnosed this morning and is on his way to get abx. I'm pretty sure I have it too but my throat doesn't hurt as bad as his. My throat looks pretty raw and I just checked ds and he has a few red spots but otherwise looks normal. What should I do for me and ds? Can we avoid abx?

Thanks for your help.

Tracy

[Gitti]

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...1/Sore-Throats


I would immediately start taking massive amounts of sodium ascorbate powder. Personally I would start with two teaspoons every two hours.

I would also take echinacea, maybe four caps every couple of hours for a day or so.

And Zinc logenzes. It must be logenzes.


I would NOT take abx.

[Emmeline II]

.

Strep discussion thread at Mothering forum:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...t=STREP+THROAT

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Old 03-05-2006, 01:51 AM #1
mlleoiseau
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natural treatment for strep throat
What are natural treatments for strep throat? My sister in law asked me that today. Her ds has strep and she took him to the doc where he got an antibiotic shot. She normally doesn't do antibiotics, but she says that strep can attack the heart within 48 hours.
I have absolutely no knowledge about strep as dd is still young and only gets a cold about once every 9 months. Is strep really that scary? What are the alternatives to antibiotics? I know that obviously you want to keep your child healthy with a good immune system, but what do you do if they get it somehow?
tia!
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:03 AM #2
lovebug
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:30 AM #3
mamamoogs
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I dont know about in children, so maybe someone can help with that, but I was told by a chiroprator that apple cider vinegar made in to a tea helps alot and just sip and drink it all day with honey, also i was told to gargle with the ACV and also salt and i did after two days of antibiotics not working and guess what sore throat gonw bynext morning.
So maybe they can try drinking ACV not sure if children can drink that though, it kinda tast well ya know like vinegar
Good luck
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:53 AM #4
tiffany21074
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Our family physician said that strep attacking the heart doesn't seem to happen anymore? She said she has never seen a case of that as long as she has been in practice.
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:41 AM #5
Karennnnn
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I'd love to know about this too.
I had strep last month and took antibiotics, but a couple of days ago started with strep symptoms again and I know I have it.
I'm nursing and do NOT want to take antibiotics again. Even if I wasn't nursing, being on antibiotics twice in a 5 week period just isn't a good idea.
I've been reading a little bit about echinacea tincture being good for strep, but have no idea how to make it.. And not only that but I'm at the brokest point of the month and can't really buy anything, I have to work with what I've got.
If I have to break down and get antibiotics, I am pretty keen enough with knowing when the right time is.
For now though, taking ibuprofen is helping a LOT. It's still miserable but not quite as bad as it was the first time.
Here's to hoping my body develops its own antibodies to strep!
I hadn't had it since childhood, but now that ds is in school I seem to be getting everything that's going around. He isn't, thank goodness, but I am. OY!
For what it's worth I've been reading also that with or without antibiotics, strep usually resolves within 3-7 days.
Take care!
Karen
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:04 AM #6
thorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffany21074
Our family physician said that strep attacking the heart doesn't seem to happen anymore? She said she has never seen a case of that as long as she has been in practice.
well, it happened to me when I was 13. I now have a heart murmur and I have to take low-dose antibiotics every time I go to the dentist or have any type of surgery, etc.
I would have preferred to have them that one time instead of the rest of my life
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:03 PM #7
Gitti
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http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...1/Sore-Throats
Quote:
Antibiotics for strep?
Most pediatricians will insist on treating strep throats with antibiotics. The specific organism is Group A beta-hemolytic streptococcus. The effect of antibiotics on the recovery from strep throats has been controversial, with early studies showing no effect on symptoms (Brink, 1951; Denny, 1953) and later studies showing dramatic improvement (Randolph, 1985).
The second reason doctors treat strep with antibiotics is because they can prevent one of the complications of strep throats, namely acute rheumatic fever (ARF), which commonly damages heart valves and can prove fatal.
Antibiotics do not seem to prevent some other complications, specifically toxic shock syndrome or kidney infections (Weinstein, 1971). However, the incidence of rheumatic fever has decreased dramatically since the age when thousands of people died every year from rheumatic fever.
In the late 1940s, 200,000 people per year developed rheumatic fever. That incidence began declining prior to the availability of antibiotics and ARF has nearly disappeared since the 1970s.
Pockets of ARF occur sporadically in various small areas of the country, but by and large rheumatic fever is now a disease of the past. Apparently, the strains of the bacteria that have an affinity for attacking the heart simply do not occur anymore except in rare isolated instances (Markowitz, 1998; Stollerman, 1990).
Once upon a time antibiotics prevented ARF that followed strep throats, but now the disease has virtually disappeared despite the fact that most sore throats do not get treated. In fact most cases of ARF now have no history of a preceding sore throat.
None of this would be an issue if antibiotics had no side effects. The problem is that they do. Antibiotics disrupt the immune system, and kill beneficial bacteria along with the pathogens.
Antibiotics also tend to create resistant strains of bacteria so that they do not work effectively when they are really needed. A further complicating issue is that strep bacteria typically do not disappear from the throat following a course of antibiotics.
The bacteria will persist even after signs of the infection have disappeared. If a throat culture is taken at some later date, the bacteria will still be present and another antibiotic prescription will follow even though there is no active infection.
Finally, studies have shown that when antibiotics are given for strep throat the infection tends to recur more often than when they are not prescribed.
I do not recommend antibiotics for strep throat unless there are an unusual number of documented RF cases caused by strep bacteria in the community, or if the patient has pre-existing heart disease.
I agree with pediatrician Robert Mendelsohn who wrote as long ago as 1984:
Both throat cultures and antibiotics are to be avoided, because the hazards of treatment outweigh the remote possibility that your child will suffer any lasting effects even if he has a strep infection (Mendelsohn, 1984).
"How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor"
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:43 AM #8
vermontana
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I am careful about advising people NOT to take abx if they have a positive strep culture. It is a personal choice, because there is a risk, even if it is a small one. Personally, I do not use abx, and I think overuse of abx contributes directly to chronic strep. If someone wants to avoid abx, then I recommend eating a lot of garlic, sucking on raw cloves of garlic, or mixing raw garlic with honey if you can't take the taste/power of garlic straight. Garlic is so good for throats and for bacterial infections. It is very antibacterial, antiviral and immune-enhancing. Apple cider vinegar is good, too. You can mix it with various herbal teas (sage, marshmallow, usnea, osha, echinacea, licorice are all good for the throat) Mix about a cup of herbal tea w/ 1/4 cup ap. cider vinegar and a couple tablespoons of sea salt, and gargle every half hour. You can also make that into a throat spray.
I make echinacea, osha root and usnea tincture, which is very effective on sore throats. Osha and usnea are particularly helpful for sore throats. If you want to rely on echinacea to boost your immune system, remember you need to start taking it in fairly large amounts as SOON as you feel the first signs of a sore throat (or whatever else). Take about 1/4-1/2 tsp every hour for acute symptoms, then 1/2 to 1 tsp a few times a day thereafter, for up to a week, then give it a rest.
Honey (RAW honey), licorice root, marshmallow and slippery elm help with the pain of sore throats.
If you are getting a lot of recurring sore throats/strep throat, look at your diet and lifestyle. Sugar and refined foods contribute to these problems. Also, consider supplementing with probiotics, especially if you have been on antibiotics for strep in the past. Orange juice isn't so great for you, go with lemons or grapefruits instead, which are less acidic and less sugary than oranges.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:02 AM #9
lovebug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffany21074
Our family physician said that strep attacking the heart doesn't seem to happen anymore? She said she has never seen a case of that as long as she has been in practice.
my SIL just had Scarlet fever from strep throat so I too don’t like to tell people not to take anti For strep
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:56 AM #10
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Oregano oil seems to be helping me. I can't remember if I've ever had strep throat before but I've had it for a week now and just starting putting drops of oregano oiil on the back of my throat and it really relieves the pain, it is also anti-bacterial so it's supposed to kill whatever is there.
I'll let you know.
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[traycanadian]

Thanks for your replies! I'm doing tons of SA, Propolis Echinacea spray and grapefruit seed extract. The naturopath I saw today also put me on Dulc. for my sore throat.

Well, when I went to a naturopath she gave me the 7 minute rapid strep test and it was negative. She wouldn't even test ds, said he only had a little red in his throat and of course did not appear sick at all. So my dh thinks it's all malarkey and wants us to get the test that takes longer to culture because he says his doc told him there's 10 per cent rate of false negatives on the rapid tests.

Here's the thing....please tell me your thoughts....I'm confused and fascinated by this......DS and I spent 5 days last week with my sister's family in central Canada who are all always sick. Last week my sister and nephew both had strep and were on abx while we were there. DH was in Atlanta on business. What is the likelihood that I or ds carried the strep home and dh caught full blown strep from one of us yet we didn't get it? Or is it more likely that dh picked it up on his own while on his trip? And if that's the case, why aren't ds and I getting it? I guess it's possible that we still will but I guess I find it strange that we endured 5 days in close quarters in a house full of sickness, didn't get sick but may get sick from a completely unrelated case of strep.

What are your thoughts, experiences?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Actually we all carry strep all the time.

There was a recent study done in this country which wasn't published in a medical journal as far as I know, but which they crowed about in the national paper. It was reminiscent of the Russian approach which is to treat strep with probiotics.

The Auckland med school went around giving kids in schools probiotics regularly and then "found" that these kids had far fewer strep and other infections.

Strep, hib and pneumo (and others) are normal commensals and when in balance, and the host is in good nick, don't cause any particular issues.

BUT if you start whacking antibiotics in all the time you increase your chances of getting invasive disease by destroying the bacterial flora. That's why carriage of nasty Strep Pneumo strains is seen in 7 times the higher numbers as you can read here:

http://www.rnzcgp.org.nz/news/nzfp/June1999/focuscl.htm

Children who have recently had antibiotics are two to seven times more likely to subsequently carry resistant strains of S. pneumoniae as commensals
Among patients with invasive disease due to S. pneumoniae, recent antibiotic use has been identified as a risk factor for infection with strains resistant to multiple drugs

And why is that? As I said before.

So its no wonder your sister's family is always sick.

You aren't getting it, I assume, becuase you haven't yet trashed your biotic flora. There is a difference between "normal commensals" and one of the commensals getting a foothold and causing havoc. And I'd imagine the way your husband eats on his trips, and the stress will be a tripping factor for him.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

And if his sisters family is already on antibiotics, and have been in the past, you may have picked up a nastier strain courtesy of their past behaviour.

I'd be whacking in the probiotics

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

http://www.meningitis-trust.org.nz/faq.htm

well well, look at this with regard to pneumococcus:

http://www.meningitis-trust.org.nz/faq.htm

Who is at risk?

• Children under 2 years of age.
• Children who attend daycare.
• Children exposed to one or more courses of antibiotics.
• Children who have suffered at least one recent ear infection.

the solution of course, is to use Prevnar vaccine.

[traycanadian]

Ah...MT, I knew I could count on you for information.

Yes, you're right about my dh's diet, stress, etc. during travel, however, it's interesting that he is the one who has been taking lots of probiotics every day for 10 months and neither ds nor I has ever taken any supplements, other than what we get in our yogurt. Of course, dh has had a particularly rough year with various ailments including his 9 day hospital stay for ruptured appendix. He picked up C. Difficile in the hospital but he managed to lick that one without additional abx. Not so for this strep I guess.

On the other hand, ds has never had abx (or vax) and I haven't in probably 15 or 20 years (or vax since I was a kid). So even though ds and I both hardly slept on our trip and didn't eat our regular healthy diet and definitely suffered stress (family visits do that to me I'm afraid), we still came out of it okay.

My sister has always just done what she was told by the docs etc. but she is starting to wise up, due partly to my little nudges every now and then (I found out that she refused kindergarten boosters for her daughter recently because of my yammering on about vaxes....yay) and partly because she is starting to realize that the docs don't have a clue what they're doing. She is in the process of making major life changes and significantly reducing the stress and chaos in her life. It's going to take another 8 months of chaos though. In the meantime, she's got them all on Vit. C and probiotics but I suspect she's not doing nearly enough. I hope they can recover.

Anyway, thanks for your reply and links. I'm feeling extra smug today about my rocket immune system. Being too cocky is probably not such a good thing with strep still in my home......

T

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by traycanadian

I'm feeling extra smug today about my rocket immune system. Being too cocky is probably not such a good thing with strep still in my home......

T

Cute! But now watch out, those nasties are coming to get you....

[traycanadian]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Cute! But now watch out, those nasties are coming to get you....

They got me Gitti!

And now I need more advice - basically I need you all to talk me out of taking the abx. I got a positive test yesterday and the doc wrote me a scrip for penicillin which I have not filled and never had any intention of filling. But I read today that I can remain contagious for 2 or 3 weeks! That's a long time to go without kissing my husband! I'm not worried for myself, my symptoms are very manageable, but I do not want to infect my husband again because he will take abx again and after all he's been through this year, I just don't want that for him. Also, I do not want ds to get this. I know it's rare for 3 year olds to get strep but I am with him all day, every day. Isn't there a good chance I'll accidently infect him at some point in the next 3 weeks? I am willing to sacrifice myself to abx if it means I can save my two men from this (I know that if my son gets it, my dh will insist on abx for him).

What would you all do?

As an aside, once again I am perplexed about where this strep is coming from. I guess I could have had it all along and am just getting symptoms now or perhaps my son could be a carrier. My dh had just finished is 10 day course of abx when my symptoms appeared....the incubation period is not that long so it must have come from me or my son. Fascinating.

This has also been my first real test with SA since I've never had a really bad illness/infection before. My regular max. dose of SA is around 8 or 9 grams, yesterday I got up to 18 grams and still didn't feel even close to the rumbly feeling of maxing out and there was almost no detectable excretion in my urine. Cool.

Thanks for reading.

T

[MammaV]

Sage tea kills strep throat. Here's my recipe for sage:
Sore Throat Gargle
To relieve the pain of sore throat or canker sores, use the following strong sage tea. It also helps clear the throat of mucus congestion. Very good for Strep Throat

Pour one cup of boiling water over 2 Tablespoons of sage. Cover and steep for 10 minutes. Strain and gargle when tea is cool enough as to not burn your mouth and throat. You may use sage out of the kitchen spice rack as long as it is less than 2 years old.

I know of folks who have used this and have gotten rid of strep in 24-48 hours. I've never had strep, nor have my kids, but DH gets it on a regular basis.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Originally Posted by traycanadian

They got me Gitti!

And now I need more advice - basically I need you all to talk me out of taking the abx. I got a positive test yesterday and the doc wrote me a scrip for penicillin which I have not filled and never had any intention of filling. But I read today that I can remain contagious for 2 or 3 weeks! That's a long time to go without kissing my husband! I'm not worried for myself, my symptoms are very manageable, but I do not want to infect my husband again because he will take abx again and after all he's been through this year, I just don't want that for him. Also, I do not want ds to get this. I know it's rare for 3 year olds to get strep but I am with him all day, every day. Isn't there a good chance I'll accidently infect him at some point in the next 3 weeks? I am willing to sacrifice myself to abx if it means I can save my two men from this (I know that if my son gets it, my dh will insist on abx for him).

What would you all do?

I can't answer for you. Only me. And since any antibiotic would kill me, I can't take it, so that decision is made.

As an aside, once again I am perplexed about where this strep is coming from. I guess I could have had it all along and am just getting symptoms now or perhaps my son could be a carrier. My dh had just finished is 10 day course of abx when my symptoms appeared....the incubation period is not that long so it must have come from me or my son. Fascinating.

Strep only becomes a problem when something has trashed the balance of all commensals, which is why the Russian treat commensal issues with probiotics.

This has also been my first real test with SA since I've never had a really bad illness/infection before. My regular max. dose of SA is around 8 or 9 grams, yesterday I got up to 18 grams and still didn't feel even close to the rumbly feeling of maxing out and there was almost no detectable excretion in my urine. Cool.

Thanks for reading.

T

Please e-mail me through the system your e-mail. I will send you the most recent article on strep and antibiotics which is pretty frightening stuff. You need to read it, then make your choice.

[zen_monster]

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

Please e-mail me through the system your e-mail. I will send you the most recent article on strep and antibiotics which is pretty frightening stuff. You need to read it, then make your choice.

I'm going to send you my email as well. I have had some major strep problems which have always been treated with abx. I would greatly appreciate it if you could forward the article.

ps. I hope you are still on vacation... but it sure is nice to see you peeking in

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Well, its a funny situation.

Because of the situation I'm currently "working" in, I was "told" today, that I'm not allowed to work from Friday night to Saturday night. : To me, a break is as good as a rest, so maybe I can play here at those times.

I've sent you the info.