She did what?!?! (poop) - Page 4

[Finch]

Originally Posted by mama_b

May I ask what happened to the child to cause her to have RAD? :

They think she was sexually abused by her mother.

ILM2DS, RAD is caused exclusively by extensive abuse and neglect during the infant stage.

[bri276]

if in fact that's what she has. it scares me that one doctor could make that one diagnosis that could cause her parent to make a decision to relenquish custody- esp a dr that's saying bipolar for a 7 yr old- I'd read up, plus get 2nd, possibly 3rd opinions from the best child psych. around, and then make the final decision on custody. jmho. but, this is because I've had personal experience with being diagnosed inaccurately by a child psychologist- not my child, ME, and though he was very intelligent, experienced and well meaning, his diagnosis was simply wrong, his treatment was ineffective and what he told my parents made my life worse, and I'm still undoing the damage 10 yrs+ later. and that doesn't even take into effect several child psychiatrists who saw me, listened to my mother rattle off a few things, barely looked at me, and take out the pen and pad and prescribe multiple psychiatric drugs that I didn't need. do some kids have real mental illnesses and need read medications? of course. I'd just be careful in accepting the first diagnosis that comes along.

[kraftykathy]

waterbaby9503, thank you so much for the update and clarification. aw what a tough situation! i don't know what to say either. i feel so sad for you and your family. i hope you can find some way to help the girl and still feel secure in your home.

[momma2girls]

you can read more about RAD here:
www.radkid.org
That website helped me out soooo much.

Many things can cause one to develop RAD. It is not just one specific event but several. Cleaning up poop from a kid with autism is so different than one with RAD. The RAD kid is trying to make you hate them. They will do EVERYTHING in their power to make you hate them and push them away.
Having a RAD kid in the house is a nightmare everyday, every hour, every minute. You never know what they might do. You can not leave them alone with pets or other children. I didn't even trust the one I had in my house to be in the same room as my kids with ME in the room. They are sneaky, manipulative, and will make everyone that doesn't live with them think that you are the one that is crazy and in need of help not them.
They smile sweetly after screaming at you for 45 minutes. Literally, 45 minutes of screaming for no reason other than b/c they feel like it. Try to pull out a camcorder to tape the event and they stop completely stop mid-scream and smile.
They have no feelings. No conscience. They don't even like themselves. You have to put locks and alarms on the doors to keep yourself safe at night. We had alarms, locks and a gate on the doors to our rooms.

There is no 'simply love them' to it. It does not work. No amount of love will help them. Everything BellinghamCrunchie says is so completely true. I could not argue with any of it.
If there is some other family members that has NO kids and NO pets and are willing to do what it takes to help a RAD kid with the full understanding of what they are getting themselves into then I would not hesitate a second to let them have her. She needs a good attachment therapist, they are hard to find. Most therapist know very little about RAD and end up doing more harm then good.

I would get myself and my baby out of this situation yesterday! It is no place either of you.

I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this. Like I said in my previous post you can pm me anytime to talk. I know what it is like too well.

[Individuation]

I'm glad we've all found a convenient way to write off the little girl in question. You know, a lot people debate the entire idea of Reactive Attachment Disorder, let alone making the RAD=Bad Seed correlation.

And many of the things that are being said here about RAD are the sort of things people used to say about autism.

I mean, really, guys. Come on.

[tiffani]

I couldn't read this without responding -- my heart goes out to all of you!! It seems to me, however, that it would be irresponsible to accept RAD as a diagnosis, or bipolar, or anything else, without first changing your attitude about her. If it were me, and I'm not downplaying the intense frustration you must have with her, but if it were me, I'd want to know that I did everything in my power to offer a functional family for her. Wear your baby on your back at all times if you must, to keep him out of danger, but commit to at least getting several opinions about her, finding behavior therapists/counselors/etc whatever you can do, before sending her off to live with grandparents. Do you think the grandparents could handle her? Or will she end up in foster care eventually if left to them? If your husband relinquishes custody, does the mother then get full custody? Is it possible to investigate the possibility of abuse?

If you do decide that it's RAD, find out all you can about RAD, and seek out differing opinions on how to deal with RAD kids -- what "works" for one may be terrible for another, just like any other "disorder".

First and foremost, DO NOT BLAME HER for her behavior -- 7 seems so old to the mother of a baby, but she's still very young, and obviously in a terrible situation any way you look at it, whether she has a disorder or not. The fact that she tried to hide the poop seems to me like she wasn't trying to piss you off, or that she at least has remorse -- is that indicative of RAD?

And what does her father have to say about abuse? I find it strange that she goes to stay with her mother if there are suspicions of abuse. When did the father leave the mother and little girl? Has he tried to stop her from having custody? Why was he wanting to relinquish? This just seems odd to me, and If I had a child with a man whose daughter was displaying signs of abuse, yet he was sharing custody with the suspected abuser, I'd be REALLY concerned.

I'm not trying to pry, I'm just really concerned, and needing more information to be able to offer support.

take care of yourself and your family, including DSD

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I understand a little better from where you’re coming from. You’re in a situation where you fear for the quality of life of your child because of the fact that the father has another child who is a major threat to a peaceful safe home life.

I will say, first, that my sympathies and “loyalty” still kind of goes out to your step-daughter. I can’t help but ask myself questions like, “How did you all get into this situation? Didn’t you know about her when you and the father decided to start a life together? What happened to this poor child? Why, if you think it was the mother, does she still have custody during the summers?...”

Regardless of the answer, it seems like the fact that she was seriously abused isn’t in question. Relinquishing rights to your abused child doesn’t seem like an option to me.
I can’t help but feel that her father needs to be there for her 100%. I feel that, if you went into this knowingly (and perhaps even if you didn’t) you need to be there too.

But, that doesn’t mean that being there for her 100% means having her in your home with major chaos. I’m sure that you will all have to come up with some seriously unique living situations. It seems like grandparents helping out big time is a wonderful option for you all.

I just think that, if you made a choice to be in this (either by having a child and keeping her/him or marring someone with a child) you should be in it for the long haul. But, I don’t think that means not getting all the help that that child and your family needs. Be that state assistance, living in seperate homes, grandparents, therapists or, (if it’s best for the child) some other unique situation.

I guess that’s what I’m getting at. A big round about way of saying that I wish this thread was about you and your DH looking for help with this child. Maybe that is what it’s about. Big hugs to all of you…especially that little girl.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by tiffani

I couldn't read this without responding -- my heart goes out to all of you!! It seems to me, however, that it would be irresponsible to accept RAD as a diagnosis, or bipolar, or anything else, without first changing your attitude about her. If it were me, and I'm not downplaying the intense frustration you must have with her, but if it were me, I'd want to know that I did everything in my power to offer a functional family for her. Wear your baby on your back at all times if you must, to keep him out of danger, but commit to at least getting several opinions about her, finding behavior therapists/counselors/etc whatever you can do, before sending her off to live with grandparents. Do you think the grandparents could handle her? Or will she end up in foster care eventually if left to them? If your husband relinquishes custody, does the mother then get full custody? Is it possible to investigate the possibility of abuse?

If you do decide that it's RAD, find out all you can about RAD, and seek out differing opinions on how to deal with RAD kids -- what "works" for one may be terrible for another, just like any other "disorder".

First and foremost, DO NOT BLAME HER for her behavior -- 7 seems so old to the mother of a baby, but she's still very young, and obviously in a terrible situation any way you look at it, whether she has a disorder or not. The fact that she tried to hide the poop seems to me like she wasn't trying to piss you off, or that she at least has remorse -- is that indicative of RAD?

And what does her father have to say about abuse? I find it strange that she goes to stay with her mother if there are suspicions of abuse. When did the father leave the mother and little girl? Has he tried to stop her from having custody? Why was he wanting to relinquish? This just seems odd to me, and If I had a child with a man whose daughter was displaying signs of abuse, yet he was sharing custody with the suspected abuser, I'd be REALLY concerned.

I'm not trying to pry, I'm just really concerned, and needing more information to be able to offer support.

take care of yourself and your family, including DSD

Cross post, you said what I thinking better than I could have.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

Cross post, you said what I thinking better than I could have.

I thought the same thing after reading your post!

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I don't know it this is a good site or not but this is one thing that came up for me in regards to RAD therapy. Something to be aware of, OP.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...Topics/at.html

[jaye]

since every post I make to this thread gets removed I'll just say a big yeah that to Tiffani and IdentityCrisisMama, and Hala too.

[~MoonGypsy~]

I'm still confused on the correlation between the mother liking porn and sodomy. Last time I checked being "into porn" didn't make you a horrible person, even if your preference is DP or DVDA. And for Pete's sake, DP does not equal sodomizing one's own child!!!

[Individuation]

Originally Posted by jaye

since every post I make to this thread gets removed I'll just say a big yeah that to Tiffani and IdentityCrisisMama, and Hala too.

Jaye! There you are!

[Finch]

Originally Posted by Individuation

I'm glad we've all found a convenient way to write off the little girl in question. You know, a lot people debate the entire idea of Reactive Attachment Disorder, let alone making the RAD=Bad Seed correlation.

And many of the things that are being said here about RAD are the sort of things people used to say about autism.

I mean, really, guys. Come on.

ITA Hala.

[secondseconds]

Let's see..

Kid gets taken away from apparently very unsuitable mother
Kid goes to Dad who already was trying to get rid of her
Chickie living with Dad has a baby and is not interested in her

Boy, I think I'd be pooping on the floor too and scratching myself up. How horrible to be so unwanted by so many people.

The best thing you have said so far is that you are thinking of moving out...absolutely do that, because if you cannot help the situation, you are only adding to her trauma.

[wendy1221]

: w/ the last several posters on this page. I agree w/ those saying she still needs love, and I agree w/ those saying to seek a second opinion.

BUT, imo, if this mama isn't able to give this girl the love and attention she knows this girl needs, then is it such a bad thing for her to ask the gradparents to take her rather than splitting up her own newly formed little family? Also, if her infant is truly in danger, I'm sorry, but MY baby comes first. I would do anything I could for any child who came my way, EXCEPT risk the well-being of my own children. Sorry, but that's the way it is. My job as a mother is to think of MY children first. Yes, this girl needs help and love, but if she is a danger to her half-brother, then it is NOT going to possible for her to get the love she needs from her stepmother. How can anyone blame this woman for admitting she can't love this girl who tries to HURT her BABY??? Yes, I have older kids, and yes they have hurt their younger siblings (well, actually ds1 never did. He has never hurt another person on purpose. But he most likely has Asperger's, so he isn't typical.) But, imo, this is far more serious than normal sibling rivalry.

Imagine yourself being in the same situation: You are SAH, nursing your FIRST baby, who is still (most likely at 6 mos) exclusively bf. Do you remember what that feels like, especially w/ your first baby (we all have to admit, the first baby was the baby of extremees, am I right?) Your life is already suddenly changed and in even more upheaval by this little girl that your dp told you wouldn't be living with you after the baby is born (I assume since he was in the process of terminating his custody of her.) She tries to physically harm the baby and you can't put the baby down for ONE MINUTE out of fear that this little girl will harm your sweet little helpless trusting baby, who may or may not even be able to crawl at this age. How do you go to the bathroom? Take a shower? Take out the trash? Go out to start the car in the winter? clean anything? Yes, she can wear the baby, and I am a mei tai mom myself, but we all need to give our backs a break sometimes. Plus I can only imagine how much stress she is under fearing for the safety of a young infant!

After imagining yourself as the mama in the OP, think again what youthink would be best for this poor little girl. Do you still think that you would be able to give her the love and attention she needs? On top of caring for your first baby, who is still very young? (I don't know about you, but my first baby knocked me on my ass. NO WAY could I handle another child, even if that child did NOT have difficulties. I was also a young mother in college when I had my first. It's really really hard.) Do you still really believe the OP is wrong to say she needs to get out of this situation, either by taking her baby and leaving her dp, or by sending the stepdaughter to live with her grandparents? This is only my opinion of course, but I think it would be best for all involved if the OP, her baby, and the baby's dad could stay together as a family, and the stepdaughter could go live with the grandparents, who are more likely to have the time and energy to love this girl as much as she needs.

[~MoonGypsy~]

This will probably just get removed too.

I don't think the OP is wrong to want to get out of the situation. By all means, if she feels her child is truly in danger, please do so. I think she is wrong to treat the little girl like a piece of waste that is dirtying up her living room when company is on the way. She has said so so many harsh things about this little girl, who decidely is a handful, that I wonder if the OPs attitude toward the girl is part of the root of the problem.

The "dangerous" things that the little girl has done don't sound unreasonable for any child seeking attention when a new baby shows up. If your oldest child did these things when #2 showed up, would you get rid of him? I would hope not.

I'm having a hard time responding to this situation. The more I read the OP's post, the more I find hugehugehuge holes in the story.

[Bartock]

Is RAD reversible, with therapy and such? Or will she just get worse as time goes on, seems she will get worse with people just wanting to get rid of her instead of trying to help her

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by ilovemy2ds

Is RAD reversible, with therapy and such? Or will she just get worse as time goes on, seems she will get worse with people just wanting to get rid of her instead of trying to help her

Its a long, difficult battle to heal a child with RAD. There is more likely to be success if the child is younger (no older than four). If this particular child has a chance, she needs to get out of that environment and into one where she will be unconditionally loved and have strong, therapeutic, highly invested parents, and intense family therapy with an attachment counselor.

Bouncing from place to place and family to family does tend to make it worse because the longer attachment is delayed the less hope there is, realistically. But the damage that causes RAD was done in infancy.

[waterbaby9503]

The RAD came from her baby yrs, definitely.
She was born while her mom was living at her grandmother's house. She lived there for 6 mo. The grandmother did all baby care. The mother did not want her and did not try to bf. She had not thought she could get pg. DP tells me that the girl was left alone alot in swings and bouncers while the mom was on the computer(world of warcraft anyone? *gag* )
At 6 mos baby went to paterna grandparent's. DP saw his daughter on the wkends. The mother lived at the paternal grandparents' as well but didn't really take care of baby. Mother was on antidepressants but did not take them often enough. The paternal grandmother did most baby, and she is sweet sweet woman who I am sure did a great job.
Then there was an arrangement where baby went to maternal gparent's on wkends and stayed with paternal gpa's during the wk while both parents worked full time(the parent's of the child's parent's were starting to lay down the law and say they need to do work to be supporting their child. parents were ages 18 and 21)
So then the father joins the military and leaves for the next yr, coming back twice for wk long visits. The baby is cared for by both sets of grandparents(who really hate each other and antagonize the opposite family).
When daddy came back from military training's and could have family with him the family moved to CA. Daddy lived on base and mommy lived off base with baby. She got tired of the one year old(appox? the story is confusing. He's told me several times and I hardly understand all the moving around) and sent the baby back to her parents. Then they moved to a midwestern state and the family of 3- mommy, daddy, and baby- were together again. This lasted 2 yrs. The dad was the primary caretaker and the mother became suicidal during this time. Mother tried to commit suicide but her stomach was pumped. While the dad was at work the 2 y/o; 3 year old girl was left to cry in her room. Once she wandered blocks away and the military police brought her back. The mom never noticed she was gone; the mother was really into "Star Wars Galaxies" online game at this time.
(Some of this stuff I know bc it was an exhibit during their divorce trial. The divorce trial was a week long!! to hear all evidence)
Then they were told to move again. The mother was put on suicide watch again. The mother then took the child one day and drove back across the country to live with her mother and immediately filed for divorce and got restraining order.
The girl lived in one place- with the maternal grandmother- for the next 2.5 yrs while courts and lawyers went back and forth with hearings and motions and court dates. The grandmother was just that to her- the grandma. Extremely indulgent. No "parenting" or discipline. She really really indulged the girl's pretend play of being a cat. This is normal for a 4 year old. But it is still going strong at age 7. Her elementary school teacher is working with her on this.
The grandmother offered to pay the girl LOTS of money (at age 5) to say in court that "daddy played with her bottom". Apparently there was lots of coaching on this topic. Finally, in court, she said "grandma says I should say daddy touched me bad so I will get a new puppy" and "if I tell you my daddy hurt me then grandma will let me have all the toys I want". Tell me this won't poison a child. So luckily my DP is not in prison for child abuse he didn't do(ha! He hadn't even had custody of her for a few yrs at that pt!)
The court finally said she should go live with her dad bc of the porn in the mother's house. The grandmother admitted during the trial that she touched the girl in some questionable ways.
50,000 has already been spent on lawyer's by my DP alone. Don't know what the mother has spent.

There is another court date set for January. It is an appeal of the parenting plan. Two wks ago dp had to fly out of state to meet his ex in court in her state. She filed a Motion for Family Access. It was denied.
So there ya go. It is a crazy sitch.
This is what gives a child RAD.