Continuum Concept v. Playful Parenting

[crb]

I have read both Leidoff's CC and Lawrence Cohn's PP and just wondered if anyone else has thoughts/feelings about them - as I read each one (actually sort of did them both simultaneously) I would think "yeah! that sounds great!" Then I would read the other one and think "Oh, I need to do more of that!"
So these seem to be diametrically opposed - let your kids follow the adults and learn to join into that society or get down on your kids' level and play with them to understand what they are thinking about, etc. and ensure close connection.
So I guess that both are about fostering connection, but seem to see the process as very different. Anyone out there strong on one side or the other, or any ideas about how to combine them? Love to hear your thoughts on either/both to sort of compare philosophies. Thanks!

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I think CC is more suited for, well, communal-type living, say, a group of like-minded people in a farming area or back-to-nature type society, where there is always stuff to do (you know, like milk the cows, weave the baskets, carry the water, chop the wood, etc) and the physical activity level is high. There aren't too many things that are dangerous for children to get into and they can wander from adult to adult and get nearly the same response.

In most of our society, where the "work" that grown-ups do is often something like sitting at a computer, writing out bills, talking on the phone, or driving to appointments, etc CC just doesn't work that well. Children can't join in or follow those activities easily. Most places we live aren't very toddler-proof or child-proof and people have such various ideas about how to interact with children that there isn't the consistency that there is in some other societies.

So given the society I live in, I find myself more often using Playful Parenting techniques and philosophies. I do try to balance that with some CC concepts, such as going about my housework and trying to include her into those tasks if she desires, otherwise, she can just follow me from room to room. But really, that part of our day is rather short.

[Fay]

I'm a die-hard playful parent. DS has autism, and playing is the best possible therapy for him.

But we also include DS in all of our activities...right now he is super-pumped about going to get the car fixed at the mechanic's shop with Daddy. We wore him everywhere until he was too heavy to be worn, but even at age 5 he is ALWAYS at our side. As CC teaches, every situation is a learning situation.

[crb]

Interesting!
I do seem to recall a paragraph in PP about how our society is not really set up for CC, so we must find a different way. I just find it amusing that I really like both of these styles - even though the core of them seems different. I feel schizophrenic going between the two concepts - but maybe that is part of being in our society?
So basically, CC is great as a general concept - sound like you are
using it as a strategy for including children in activity rather than relegating them to a play room on their own. But when the children do go to the playroom, you go too.
I do remember CC talking about older kids playing w/the younger ones - and in our society the parents really end up in that roll of playmate since the family group is so small.
Love to hear other thoughts/ideas!

[nicholas_mom]

oh crap I wrote a reply and it got lost :

Anyway, this sounds like a great topic. I haven't read CC but I read the gist from the internet. I used CC more when ds was a baby and now we do both PP and CC. The PP seems to help with the behavior problems we encounter during the 3 yr old stage.

DH and I include our chores with ds, from laundry, to changing clocks, lightbulbs or rotating tires and the like.

He will make a good father and husband to his future wife and kids.

[Ellien C]

I view CC as an overaching philosophy or strategy for raising children. I view playful parenting as a tool or tactic to live within the CC frame-work. For adult leadership to work (a la CC) you need to have a group of people and children of different ages following the leader. There is no coecion in CC.

Obviously this isn't the world we live in - we have deadlines, doctors appointments, schedules, etc. So playful parenting is a tactic I use to avoid coercion - to make my child want to follow my parent leadership in a world where that isn't modelled and where we don't have lots of children following along with their parents.

Does it make sense? There is a big CC discussion list and Cohen's PP is recommended a lot for those times when you parent leadership isn't recognized but you need to do something.

[EnviroBecca]

in a farming area or back-to-nature type society, where there is always stuff to do (you know, like milk the cows, weave the baskets, carry the water, chop the wood, etc) and the physical activity level is high.

We live in the city. We've found there's plenty of stuff to do, and the physical activity level is high: We walk everywhere we can (child in sling when he was smaller, now walking when he will and being carried the rest of the time) and there's plenty of cleaning, dishwashing, laundry, sweeping, plant watering, cooking, etc. he can "help" with. It's true that we do some "modern" things that are harder to participate in...but when we're making lists, paying bills, etc., we give him crayons and paper so he can do his own "work"; sometime within the next year we'll set up our old computer for him; he has an old telephone to use while we're on the phone.

I'll admit, I can't bring my child to my job for long periods, because it's too boring for him and requires too much focus from me. But in the evenings and weekends, we manage to do a lot of things together.

I haven't read PP. But I think, based on my experience as a parent so far and my memories of childhood, that it's important to play with children sometimes. In particular, I think everybody likes to have a chance to call the shots. Children spend so much of their time being directed by adults ("Time for dinner!" "Sit down here!") and I do agree that it's what they expect and crave a la CC, but once in a while it's great fun to turn the tables. My son recently came to the realization that what he says can affect what we do, and now he loves to give commands: "Daddy, music on! Dance!" The trick is for us to respond only when it's in the spirit of play and we're available to play, or when he's expressing a genuine need...because he does NOT want us to do exactly what he says when he's making extravagant requests at a time when he NEEDS to sleep or eat instead, and if we do comply it upsets him because it implies we don't know what's what. Sometimes he's testing his understanding of what to do and needs us to be firm.

[crb]

I view CC as an overaching philosophy or strategy for raising children. I view playful parenting as a tool or tactic to live within the CC frame-work.

This is great - very clear and puts it in a perspective for me. It is interesting to see how people have been able to use both to a certain extent.

From birth, dd has not been a "follow along" kind of kid - I'm not sure how much of this is based on me and my leftover childhood issues affecting my parenting and how much is just her personality. When we play, she is pleasant, happy, albeit demanding. When I "go CC" on her, she usually does not join in, but rather sits around waiting for me to get back to her or interrupts me. And I start to feel bad for ignoring her needs. This is starting to change - she helped make dinner last night! - but I find it a hard balance to maintain - my vision is more CC, dd's vision is more PP, maybe

[AngelBee]

I read CC resently and am working on PP right now.

I think they are actually very closely related. To me, the main connection is attitude and thoughts......HOW you view and approach daily life.

I am enjoying the process of working through some of the concepts in these books.

:

[Periwinkle]

Originally Posted by EnviroBecca

We live in the city. We've found there's plenty of stuff to do, and the physical activity level is high: We walk everywhere we can (child in sling when he was smaller, now walking when he will and being carried the rest of the time) and there's plenty of cleaning, dishwashing, laundry, sweeping, plant watering, cooking, etc. he can "help" with.

Absolutely : At a fundamental level, the same work has to be done today as it did 20 or 200 or 2000 years ago.... get food, clean house, make meals, care for children, home upkeep, clean, do washing, socialize, run errands, work, entertain, worship, tend to family relationships, etc etc. Of course the type of work and ease of working have changed, but it's still in many ways much the same stuff, kwim?

While I would not call myself a CC poster child by any means, I am much more in line with this way of thinking. I have three little kids and no way can I be down on the floor playing with them all day or the dishes, the housework, the errands, the cooking, etc would never get done. Sure there are days where I say "forget it all... we're going to stay in our jammies and play!" but I think that consistently showing a child that it's ok the laundry is never done, the dirty dishes are always piled up, mom's never showered, the house is never clean and so on -- just so the child can be entertained -- can be unhealthy.

Instead, I include my kids in the work of the household. I've actually found they have a very natural desire to participate in the things dh and I do, and from a very early age in fact. In this way I guess you could say we're family centered though I think this term is sometimes used to be pejorative by AP parents. My last child was always worn, breastfed on demand (still is), coslept, etc., which is of course the child-centered part of AP but also falls in line with the important tenets of CC. And as for the PP part, I do my share of floor playing but it just doesn't rule our day and doesn't (usually though we're flexible when needed) occur at the expense of my own or the family's own needs.

[Ravin]

Consider the story in CC of hauling the sugar cane and how JL learned how not to treat the task as "work." With that in mind, think of PP as taking the same approach to interacting with your kids. You can make it a chore, or you can make it enjoyable for all concerned. It's the Mary Poppins effect. I don't see the two philosophies as at all contradictory.

[Periwinkle]

I do see them as highly contradictory, if PP is taken to mean a good parent should be very child-centered, and should seek to engage in child play often throughout the day. Having not read PP I can't comment on that.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by Ravin

Consider the story in CC of hauling the sugar cane and how JL learned how not to treat the task as "work." With that in mind, think of PP as taking the same approach to interacting with your kids. You can make it a chore, or you can make it enjoyable for all concerned. It's the Mary Poppins effect. I don't see the two philosophies as at all contradictory.

I totally agree.

[PrennaMama]

They're both good books, and reveal some excellent tools and philosophies... but no one book or philosophy stands alone. Sometimes I hear moms debating about these tools and philosophies as tho they are debating religion or politics, and it seems like we read a book, it strikes a chord, and suddenly it's the gospel! And then we read another book, that might challenge some of what we thought was so spectacular in the first book, but it sounds right on, too... and then there's this dichotomy... Which is "right"?

The simple truth is that they both are, and there are even more "right" philosophies out there that challenge what we think we know... The trick is to ignore the things that don't fit into your style, and integrate the things that do fit in, or that improve style. Those new things that we integrate may come from concepts that seem at odds form one another, but it's not like there are thought police who are gonna fine you for going outside the lines of one book, and "straying" into another...