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Would you eat dairy from pastures fertilized with human manure compost?  

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
This is something I have been wondering for a while. A large part of the reason why our soil is in such bad condition is because we do not replenish it. When you pasture a cow on a field, the cow eats the grass... and rummages. His own manure then in turn fertilizes the field and replenishes it... making it a small sustainable ecosystem. But say you take something out of the equation... like milking him. Now you are taking vitamins and minerals out of the cows diet, whereas before they would have been returned to the soil, or not taken up as much. This is the circle of life basically, and the natural and most logical thing to do is to complete the circle, by returning whatever you have back to the soil... after ingesting from whatever you took out (such as meat or milk) .

So... do you really think your own manure is so much worse than any other animals?

You see the thing is, when manure is composted properly, it is basically changed to something entirely different. No longer foul smelling, but like fresh dirt and anyone who knows what fresh good compost smells like would know. The thermotrophic bacteria heat the tempearture of a compost pile up to typically 150 degrees or so in the center.

Anyone familiar with probiotics is familiar with what takes place here... as the plethora of bacteria in this environment would destroy any pathogens if there were any at all.

If this was instituted on any widescale basis, the soil of our nation would be rebuilt, the food would be more nourishing which would lead to a better health over all.. and simply better tasting food.

I cant even remember the last time i had a good peach... well i can. it was once ever. and that is how i know that food can have a huge variance in taste depending on its quality. We are missing out.

By recycling our waste in this way, chemical fertilizing would simply be uneconomincal... since our waste recycled would be free. Organic produce would be the norm, and not only for wealthy people. THe destruction of our environment would be lessened to a great degree by the absence of these chemicals. The soil which is stripped year after year to the point of brinking on a barren wasteland would be stopped.

In short, the act of recycling our waste which is practiced in some parts of asia (although it is often done in a raw and not composted state) , is the way that we should fit into the circle of life....

The usda does not permit food fertilized with organic manure to be called even organic. I suppose because there are worries that contaminants could be in the manure.

However the process of composting has been shown to change the properties of certain toxins and heavy metals. Sort of how any other kind of fermenting... like sauerkraut changes the nature of the cabbage... and makes these toxins into less harmful forms.

So.... would you ?
post #2 of 19
I fully intend to eat veggies grown in humanure when we move to our land, but I probably wont go through the trouble of spreading it around on the desert for the goats
post #3 of 19
Hmmmmmmmmm, I don't know. There's a ton of variables here. For one, what about medications? Even water filtration plants can't filter that out. There's also much less disease in animals than people, isn't there? And many don't pass to humans, do they? I simply don't trust most companies who stand to make a dime to be thorough in their process.

Now, a small family or local operation is different though. But, last time I checked, most strawberries from California are fertilizer with human manure.

I don't understand much about the composting process though. I hope to learn more soon though. It sounds like you can help with that too. :
post #4 of 19
:
post #5 of 19
Humanure is a big topic in permaculture, for exactly the reasons you stated. It's a subject I've been, er, ruminating on

In theory, I would. I know that humanure can be adequately handled to reduce the risk of pathogens. In practice, though, I would be nervous. First, if I didn't know the farm in question, I'd be nervous about how they're handling the humanure - is it being hot composted, or just tossed out there? Second, I am nervous about the chemical load such as drugs. If the humanure is coming from waste treatment facilities, I'd be extremely concerned about other chemicals. Unfortunately, it's impossible to keep idiots from flushing paint, motor oil, toxic (and sometimes illegal) cleaning substances. People are advised to flush oudated drugs. Parents often flush their kid's illegal stashes. Cars leak gasoline, motor oil, power steering fluid, antifreeze, etc. into the street and it washes down the sewer grates. All that stuff winds up at waste treatment plants. I've toured waste treatment plants as a civil engineering student. Um. Yeah. I wouldn't touch food grown in that sludge with a ten foot pole. Not if I was wearing tyvek and a breathing mask. The government experimented with sending that sludge for agricultural use. The results were horrible. Cancers, all kinds of health problems in the peopel eating food from those fields. It's nasty $h!t.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Yea, I agree that I am wary of toxins and other stuff flushed along with just the manure as well.

I got alot of my ideas from the humanure book here:

http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html

I believe the solution to this isn't a high tech one but low tech. (well both) . You see its kind of pointless to use like 3 gallons of watter to flush each time. If you read the humanure book.... basically you just drop sawdust on top after each go. It could probably even be just as easy as flushing... you could pull a lever and it could automatically do it for you. Since then you would'nt be able to flush, i think people would be less likely to abuse the system. Who would then pour paint mixed in with their sawdust and humanure? All of the recyclage then would have to be collected every week, much like I already haave a recycling bin now that is collected.

I suppose even then its still possible for people to put crap in there which is why you could probably get some kind of chemical detectors... just for safety precaution.
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiGG View Post
I suppose even then its still possible for people to put crap in there which is why you could probably get some kind of chemical detectors... just for safety precaution.
The crap isn't the problem- it's when they put things OTHER than crap down there that the problems arise!

ITA with the others- the idea is good in theory, and I'd have no problem buying milk from a farm that properly composts its own family's wastes and uses that as fertilizer- assuming the family in question ate a mostly organic diet and only used pharmacutical drugs on very rare occasions. However, I don't think it's going to work on a large scale in our present society.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiGG View Post
... like milking him.
Milking him?
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
you guys are funny :P as a side note... did you know that its possible for a man to lactate? not that any sane man ever would want to!
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiGG View Post
you guys are funny :P as a side note... did you know that its possible for a man to lactate? not that any sane man ever would want to!
Okay, now I am gonna need some links on that one!
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post
Okay, now I am gonna need some links on that one!
har :P

Note that I am not using any metaphor btw....

Its probably a myth but here it is: http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/...s/milkmen.html

We didn't give it much thought after that until years later when I came across a short article called "Male Lactation" by Professor Patty Stuart Macadam of the Department of Anthropology at the University of Toronto (Compleat Mother, Fall, 1996, Volume 43).

It is possible, and has been observed in animals and humans. In 1992, 18 Dayak fruit bats were captured from a rainforest in the Krau Game Reserve, Pahang, Malaysia. Of the 10 mature males captured, each had functional mammary glands from which small amounts of milk were expressed. A breast is a breast. Male lactation is physiologically possible and, according to Dr. Robert Greenblatt, production in males can be stimulated by letting a baby suckle for several weeks. Indeed some human males secrete milk at birth and at puberty.Historically, male lactation was noted by the German explorer Alexander Freiherr von Humboldt prior to 1859, who wrote of a 32-year-old man who breastfed his child for five months. It was also observed in a 55-year-old Baltimore man who had been the wetnurse of the children of his mistress.

After all, if guys couldn't ... what would be the point in having nipples :P It makes a little sense..........
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTiGG View Post
After all, if guys couldn't ... what would be the point in having nipples :P It makes a little sense..........
I have wondered about that too.
post #13 of 19
i have no problem with humanure culture. my DH and i have talked about it in regards to permaculture gardening.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post
I have wondered about that too.
Although it can be extremely hazardous to a man's health to have as many female hormones flowing as nessecary to lactate
post #15 of 19
To be perfectly honest, I'd be kinda of weary of human-manure. it just seems so strange. Anyway this is just my gut/first reaction to this. Also it seems like so many checks would have to be in place, and if something goes awry, who knows what could happen. And with all this recent reporting of contamination in produce (e. coli, salmonella) I just have reservations about this (of course I haven't thouroughly researched the topic either) - rather I'm speaking from my initial thoughts.
post #16 of 19
My gut says yes - this is exactly what is necessary to close the loop. But my head says no. Eating so high on the food chain means that toxins are compounded repeatedly before they leave our system. I don't think we need to be eating more mercury, or whatever. I am not concerned with bacteria, etc....that can be dealt with.

My guess is that vegan poo would be great!
post #17 of 19
What about 'poo' from people with certain disorders or diseases? Like diabetes or auto-immune diseases?
post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
ironically I think manure from someone sick is actually better than healthy. Pathogens aside, if you are sick most likely you aren't absorbing all the nutrients from your food, so they are getting passed along. This is just pure speculation though :P
post #19 of 19
Growing up in the midwest, I smelled plenty a field which was fertilized with sewage sludge.

Herbivore manure was so much more bearable. Human feces stink. We have a sewage composting facility on the south side of town. The entire neighborhood reeks. It reeks more than the stockyard (which only has animals on auction days).

I know that we need to use it, but I worry about the chemical treatments. I worry about the hormones and medicines. I worry about the treatments from septic tanks and RV blackwater tanks.

And honestly, living where it was used. UGH. Nothing made me more nauseated or made my eyes burn so badly (except for the cropdusters, but . . yeah.).

Now, if you're all vegetarian and composting your own. That might not be so bad. Me? I'll stick to well composted horse and cow manure.
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Mothering › Forums › Health › Nutrition and Good Eating › Traditional Foods › Would you eat dairy from pastures fertilized with human manure compost?