For ex-vegans - Page 2

[toraji]

Originally Posted by animus_silvae

Now I ask other vegs just that question: if it was a matter of your health, would you give it up? Most say no. They will never eat meat again. I would have said the same.

One of the most bitter pills for me to swallow was to realize that nothing is forever. We are all subject to our personal and environmental changes, and unless we recognize that something needs to happen to meet these changes, we suffer the consequences. Me personally, I had been willing to give up my health for my morals, ignoring all of my personal symptoms and explaining them away for one reason or another. Until it hit my DD's teeth, at which point I could not ignore or dismiss the consequences of my inaction any longer.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by hanno

I care very much about my health. My mental, emotional, spiritual and physical health are one. To me, consuming the murdered flesh of another sentient being would put me in extremely poor health from every angle.

Then I think that it's important that you honor that in your life. I think it would be counterproductive to do otherwise as I truly believe in a whole body connection. I also think it's important to be accepting - even tolerant - of those that find they need to make changes for their own mental, emotional, spiritual and physical health.

To be frank, it was the lack of acceptance on veg fronts that opened the door to me giving up our l/o veg ways. I didn't fit because I wasn't an AR activist, didn't really have any plans to ever become vegan, and felt that I wasn't thriving on the diet I was on (and no, I wasn't eating junk food and faux meat products - lots of whole grains and veggies). For me it became very apparent that you were almost expected to "start out" as an l/o veg and one day head down the vegan path and support the AR agenda. Plus, if you weren't thriving then you were doing something wrong. All of the things that have been so eloquently put on BeyondVeg.

I guess I probably wasn't committed enough in the eyes of some, but when it all came down to it we had to make a change for our health. I'm a little less likely to point out that one diet will work for everyone at this point and I think that's a good thing. That doesn't stop me, however, from offering advice on an issue when I think that the TF movement has something to offer.

PS - Congrats on your new mod duties, xenabyte. We'll try to behave, we promise!

[UmmZahra]

Yes, I hope everyone behaves.... hope I don' offend anyone either.

The reason I'm asking the x-vegans is cause I want to know if it was "one thing" or if it was many things or if it was just you liked meat.

I'm not up for imposing my lifestyle on anyone. Vegan or non Vegan is a--okay with me.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by toraji

Until it hit my DD's teeth, at which point I could not ignore or dismiss the consequences of my inaction any longer.

I had a friend whose dd's teeth were literally rotting out of her mouth from a very ealy age. This really mistified me at the time. This friend warned me about ALWAYS remembering to brush my ds' teeth. (Don't flame me but often several days and up to a week go by and I forget to do it since he HATES it!--I'm really trying to remember) Anyways, other than a little plaque build-up, ds has fantastic teeth. He has been an NT kid his whole solid-food life. Could you elaborate a little more about what happened with your dd's teeth?

[xenabyte]

You are all great...

My first DS had 'fragile' teeth, I was coming off a fairly high 'veg*n' diet when I got pregnant with him. He probalby had some 'in utero' issues and they didn't form as strong as they should have. He's 'cracked' and chipped the four uppers all within the first 18 months. Then I allowed him to have 'cheerios' as snacks, and I swear, they are what gave him cavaties (in those same 4 uppers), as I didn't give him sweets!

My second DS, I was eating basically "NT", and he's got the strongest and whitest teeth ever! He never got 'cheerios' and his dental appts have been great...though the Ped. Dentist tried to tell me that since my first son has dental issues, that it's genetic and my second son will too, so 'let's do some preventative floride sealants'....I'm like no, it's not genetic, it was how I was eating while Pregnant and what my first DS was eating when he started on solids! He shrugged. But he can't refute a healthy full set of teeth!

Hopefully this third baby will have good, strong teeth, as I'm eating the best ever now. I had bad 'baby teeth', but my adult teeth came in good and strong, so hopefully my first DS can compensate for the 'in utero' time and they will come in good and strong, since he's eating better now!

[HerthElde]

I've never actually been veg, but I came very close before and during my first pregnancy (whole foods, mostly organic, lowfat). My older dd is still very healthy compared to the general population of kids, but I definitely notice a lot of digestive disturbances and she was always on the tinier side and has a pretty crowded set of teeth.
My second dd I was eating NT up to the last couple months of my pregnancy - a lot of factors knocked me off the wagon, I've only recently gotten back on (again was eating minimal meat, and mostly organic whole foods and falling off the wagon resulted in severe PPD and only getting back on has cured me), and my dd2 is much healthier than dd1, with a noticeably wider jaw, and a noticeably sturdier build, even at birth (they actually weighed the same at birth and dd2 was actually a bit longer but I could still tell she looked stronger) At just over 9 months dd2 still has no teeth.

[Greensleeves]

This is a fascinating conversation.

Originally Posted by animus_silvae

I have also come to accept that life is violent and unless I am a Janeist, I am still killing other life.

This caught my interest but I had a hard time finding info on it until I found the right spelling. (I wouldn't know how to spell it either ) Jainism In case anyone else was wondering...................

[Still_Snarky]

Originally Posted by Greensleeves

This is a fascinating conversation.

This caught my interest but I had a hard time finding info on it until I found the right spelling. (I wouldn't know how to spell it either ) Jainism In case anyone else was wondering...................

My friend's mom was a Jainist for a while. Boy, that took some major dedication. :

[Prairiemother]

Wanted to jump in here - former l/o vegetarian; trying to NT now. Was vegetarian for 16 years, wanted to be vegan but could never give up dairy products for long. When I was pregnant with my first child morning sickness completely turned me off of tofu and I was afraid of other artificial meat products. Couldn't have protein powders because of the added Vitamin A. Was turned off cheese, too! So I felt that for my baby's sake I needed to start eating some fish. Gradually, gradually. I maintained that diet for 6 months post partum but began to feel something was quite wrong with my body - like I was fading or becoming transparent - something was missing. I was going to try again to increase soy (for protein) in my diet but wanted to read about the safety of soy in nursing and in doing some research I came across an article by Mary Enig; this turned me on to what my husband and I now affectionately call "the NT people". Now I eat meat, although not particularly much, but it's organic and grass-fed, and here I am, six months after my second pregnancy, feeling great. I credit it totally to the change in my diet. Once I am no longer lactating or pregnant I will probably drift back to my old diet, sans soy.

[hanno]

Originally Posted by pamered_mom

Plus, if you weren't thriving then you were doing something wrong.

Wow...i'm sorry you were ever made to feel that way. I guess that's what was meant by 'vegan propaganda' by another poster. There are some insensitive folks on each side, it seems. I think the only thing you were doing 'wrong' is not living and eating in a way that is best for YOU.

[snowbunny]

I'm in a similar situation ... NT really appeals to me and makes a lot of sense, and I was vegan for several months while DS was still suffering from sensitivities to milk and other parts of my diet. Now I'm back to l/o, but find myself craving meat. Yet, it really kinda gives me the creeps to prepare it (which is not a commentary on anyone else's choice; rather it's just my own hang up).

I don't know ... maybe we'll stick to mostly veg foods with an occasional meat meal tossed in. DH is really against my giving any meat to DS, but something in me thinks he needs it if only for the good fats in fish.

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by snowbunny

I'm in a similar situation ... NT really appeals to me and makes a lot of sense, and I was vegan for several months while DS was still suffering from sensitivities to milk and other parts of my diet. Now I'm back to l/o, but find myself craving meat. Yet, it really kinda gives me the creeps to prepare it (which is not a commentary on anyone else's choice; rather it's just my own hang up).

I have ALWAYS had issues preparing meat too. I think that is one of the reasons it was so easy for me to go veg in the past.

[nicolelynn]

I don't know..I've never been veg so I can't speak from experience...

all I know is the friends I have who have been or are l/o or vegan said they felt better when they ate meat, or when they felt bad they immediatelty went to meat. That says something to me. I'm still interested to know about the health of whole food vegan families (vs. processed soy products and white flour consumers)...about dental health, energy, development of the children, etc. Just curious...what works for you works, ya know?

Even as SF talks about in NT, a pure vegan and even raw diet is good for a time and season for your body. As for me I know that will be the extent of it...dh I personally feel so healthy and happy eating TF.

[mama_b]

nak

I tried to be vegan off and on for years before I gave up. I felt terrible everytime I ate vegan. I gave it up for good during my pregnancy with dd, when I got lightheaded and faint if I didn't eat meat everyday. Even now while nursing I find that if I go more than 3 days without meat I feel faint.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by hanno

Wow...i'm sorry you were ever made to feel that way. I guess that's what was meant by 'vegan propaganda' by another poster. There are some insensitive folks on each side, it seems. I think the only thing you were doing 'wrong' is not living and eating in a way that is best for YOU.

I couldn't agree more!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by toraji

One of the most bitter pills for me to swallow was to realize that nothing is forever. We are all subject to our personal and environmental changes, and unless we recognize that something needs to happen to meet these changes, we suffer the consequences. Me personally, I had been willing to give up my health for my morals, ignoring all of my personal symptoms and explaining them away for one reason or another. Until it hit my DD's teeth, at which point I could not ignore or dismiss the consequences of my inaction any longer.

I can relate. I was vegan and thought I was fine (though I still had undiagnosed CD) until dd came along. I gave up veganism for the health of my kids. I have still not found my perfect diet as I feel fine with no animal products, but still know deep down it isn't the healthiest way to eat. I have no right at this point to pull all animal products while I'm nursing. Not with my history of deficiencies. I am trying to get to a bare minimum though. Sigh. It's all very hard. At this point it is an ethical thing for me, I just feel bad about eating meat.

I know healthy vegans, I know vegans that have been so their entire lives (even in utero) and seem great. One family I know is vegan, gf and soy free. Mama has been vegan for the last 19 years. They are totally whole foods reliant. I wish I were as healthy as they are. There are no dental issues, no major medical issues at all and the 18 year old, 13 year old and 8 year old are absolutely brilliant and very athletic. The 18 year old is a martial artist and competes all over the world. None of the kids has ever had an animal product. Is that the norm? I have no idea. I have never met another family that lives like them so I don't know.

I hope to one day be able to walk that path. The reason I left it behind last year though was 100% for the health of my kids. They started out vegan but animal products made a HUGE difference in their bodies. I have no intention of having them give up meat unless they choose to. I am confused personally, but I won't experiment on them. Not with the change I've seen.