Racism: An Educational Seminar/Workshop - Page 2

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by artgoddess

If you are going to ban discussion of Racism here, you may as well change the name Mothering Dot Commune, The Natural Family Living Community for White People Only. And I'm not being sarcastic with that.

Please, Please, Please do not even further the idea of banning Racism from discussion at a mothering community.

We cross posted, but that is exactly what I was trying to say - you just did it better. I'm NOT a MOC, but if my 5 yo ever comes home from school saying the N word, I want a community of NFL/AP moms (some of whom have been on the receiving end of that word and others) with whom to discuss how to deal with it.

I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning. How many times have you seen some one say "I never knew the word jipped/gypped was racist! Wow, I won't say it anymore!" For every one person who chimes in and says something like that, think of how many more read the thread and thought it to themselves?

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by eclipse

I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning.

Absolutely, I'm one of them. After feeling attacked and going back and forth on a thread fro well over a year ago now. I took a step back and said to myself, "wow a lot of people I respect eel very passionately about this, I better look at this from another perspective." and it low and behold, I was wrong.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by eclipse

I'd also like to say that, with as much animosity as we see on those threads, people are learning. It might not seem like it when people are sniping at each other, and the same people are taking the same side in every argument - but people are learning. How many times have you seen some one say "I never knew the word jipped/gypped was racist! Wow, I won't say it anymore!" For every one person who chimes in and says something like that, think of how many more read the thread and thought it to themselves?

Definitely agree with this. I liken it to the abortion debate, which was banned a loooong time ago. I used to be 100% staunchly prolife. For myself, for you, for your daughter. For everyone. Even in the cases of rape & incest that are always hypothetically spoken of... Stem cell research was an abomination... But being here & being able to read the wise words of wise women made me examine this issue, examine myself... I am still 100% prolife for myself, & I will never be totally prochoice, but I have changed a lot, thanks to MDC. If abortion talk had been banned from the get go, I would not have had a chance to learn & grow.

If you ban talk of racism, you are essentially banning talk of race. The women who post here who are racist out of ignorance will never be able to learn a better way. I believe there are some people who are racist, who hate because of skin color & there is just no talking to those people. BUT the majority of racism is just ignorance. These people will never be able to learn if racism is not allowed to be mentioned. I just do not see that this would be a good solution. I really, really hope you reconsider. I have loved MDC for a long time & I would sincerely hate to leave.

[Missy]

wow. I put my life out there, on TAO, because WOC are leaving. They are leaving because they can't separate race or the impact of racism from their mothering or from their lives, and MDC isn't feeling very comfortable right now.

A ban on discussions about racism would solidify that feeling to an actuality, and more would leave. I would have to go. I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

I've tried to stay patient and consistent through the discussions. There are real people sitting behind their computers; they leave their computers and head back to "real life" and their "real life" will touch their children and other children and very likely, ultimately, POC. If we can change how just one person thinks, it has a chain reaction and tiny bit of change occurs. This is not entertainment to me. This is life. And I address racism in every aspect of our life because I can't isolate it out.

[bright]

Originally Posted by Missy

You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

This is really the crux of it here, for me.

I think it would be a very bad decision for MDC to decide that addressing racism here is not worthy, or worse, to ban discussions of racism. I can't imagine how that would reflect positively on the image of MDC or Mothering magazine.

[gethane]

Originally Posted by Missy

To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

Exactly. Those mamas who are POC or those mamas like myself and so many others who are raising POC don't get to decide, "hmm, today I'm not going to think about racism." Its there every single day.

[joesmom]

I will be honest here & say there are many days when I don't have to think about racism at all. I have NEVER experienced it directed at me. I will never know what it feels like to have someone call my son the "N" word. And I STILL think banning this issue would be a HUGE mistake. I feel like I have to apologize to all the women here who deal with racism on a daily basis- that I have to apologize for being white. I would never want to sweep racism under the rug, though, & I truly believe the majority of MDC's frequent posters would feel the same.

[ibex67]

nak

white mama chiming in. i also am appalled that anyone would consider censoring discussions of race and racism. it's mind boggling. what?! we can talk about issues of religion, economic justice and environmental justice and not race??? it would be insane and in itself a racist policy.

I respectfully request that anyone who cares about this issue here and the powers that be review my idea here and help flesh it out.

I volunteer to be one of the anti-racist vols.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by eclipse

I think if MDC banned discussion of racism, all of our MOC and mothers in multi-ethnic relationships/marriages would not be able to speak (at all) freely about their lives.

We already cannot. I have tried and had my threads deleted.
I have never seen a black mom post about her experiences and I am sure after seeing how my threads went, they most likely will not.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by Missy

I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

Missy this post is flat out brilliant. So simply states what I was fumbling around with earlier. To me it is clear that the reason we have such a difficult time in threads that discuss racism on this board is that those who have control or power to change that, look at racism as a voluntary subject.

I've asked the question before. Exactly how many of the Mods at MDC are women of color?

[swimswamswum]

I don't have much to add to this discussion except my support for what Artgoddess, Kajira, Missy, Gethane, Joesmom and MITB are saying. I will leave MDC if discussing racism is banned. The racism here is so blatent. Many of the mods perpetuate it. This is not a friendly site for POC. I am not okay with that. Something needs to give and it at the rate things are going, it will most likely be the membership.

[Kajira]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

We already cannot. I have tried and had my threads deleted.
I have never seen a black mom post about her experiences and I am sure after seeing how my threads went, they most likely will not.

I do not post about my relationship on MDC, I do not post pictures of my family at MDC, I had once thought of offering my pics to Mothering mag when Cynthia had posted a request and decided against it as did many other MOC, because we do not feel welcomed here (due to a racist discussion that was on going at the time)
We are good enough to have a couple pics in the mag from time to time, but that's it.

MDC is basically making it known that families of colour have no place here, if we can't discuss what happens in our lives, I guess I should be glad that admin has removed all question of if I'm wanted here.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by Missy

A ban on discussions about racism would solidify that feeling to an actuality, and more would leave. I would have to go. I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

As a African-American woman and Mama of a teenage son and a 15 mo dd, I absolutely agree with this sentiment.

Everything I do as a parent and as a woman is filtered through the lens of being a WOC. There is no seperation, to suggest that there be no discussions around race tells me that there is no place for me at the NFL/AP table of MDC or Mothering magazine.

I found this community almost 2 years ago when expecting, initially I was reading the magazine and later got turned on to the site.

I must admit its hard to be a part of this community and the greater AP community because so much of it is geared towards a white audience yet I take what works for me, and that has lead to great change in my mindset which I feel is valauble for my family.

I write on diversity issues in Maine and I hold a Masters in Organizational Management. If MDC is serious about trying to put together soon to address these issues, I would be more than happy to submit my resume. I have colleagues here in Maine who do anti-racism work and we could probably put together some type of training at a rate that MDC could handle. I don't have a lot of time also as a member of the community I initially felt strange offering up myself but if the alteranative is banning discussions I'd rather do something to affect positive change.

Shay

[bright]

Originally Posted by artgoddess

Exactly how many of the Mods at MDC are women of color?

I would also be very interested to know the answer to this question.

[~member~]

Years ago, there was a poll....I don't remember the numbers though.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Missy

A ban on discussions about racism would solidify that feeling to an actuality, and more would leave. I would have to go. I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

:

In addition, some of us who are not MOC still, through various circumstances, do not have the option of "separating it from our lives."

[ian'smommaya]

i think we as a community NEED to talk about racism, it effects women and children (and men of course.) ignoring racism does not make it go away. ignoring it makes it far far worse. i do not want to belong to a community than makes women of color feel isolated or lesser. it makes me lesser of a human being. racism effects all of us and it is our responsiblilty to educate ourselves and others about it. racisms hurts us all and most directly effects the women of color on this board.

btw nice sig kajira.

[Missy]

If MDC is serious about trying to put together soon to address these issues, I would be more than happy to submit my resume. I have colleagues here in Maine who do anti-racism work and we could probably put together some type of training at a rate that MDC could handle.

My husband and I have put together anti-racism workshops for teachers and so we've seen the importance of that kind of training first-hand. Please, please, please, consider Shay's offer.

[ombra*luna]

Originally Posted by artgoddess

Please, Please, Please do not even further the idea of banning Racism from discussion at a mothering community.

Please, please do not even consider the idea of banning the discussion of racism at mdc.

I am white, and I am older than many of the members here. However, my mother was careful to do her very best to raise me and my siblings to be anti-racist. It was difficult for her to do that, because when I was a child, we lived in an area that was not at all racially diverse, but she did what she could. I was brought up not to be racist and I most certainly try very much not to be racist - but I have still learned a great deal about racism, and avoiding racism, from reading discussions here at mdc.

This is helpful, because I am working hard to raise my children to be as far from racist as possible, and I need to know where that place is.

Please don't do it!

[jaye]

Originally Posted by Missy

A ban on discussions about racism would solidify that feeling to an actuality, and more would leave. I would have to go. I can't separate race and racism from my mothering because I can't separate it from my children. To even suggest that a ban might be appropriate demonstrates the mindset of the site. You are viewing mothering through a white lens; you don't have to think about race and racism, you can separate it from your life, because your consideration of it is voluntary.

I agree with Gethane - the suggestion alone is unbelievably offensive.

I'm amazed and grateful that there are any women of color left at this board.