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Don't cops have anything better to do? - Page 4

post #61 of 205
Yeah, I pretty much agree that ideally, a police officer should have something better to do than to pull people over who aren't breaking the law in order to share his or her opinion. In this case it was probably a traffic cop who wasn't sure if you were beaking the law until after he pulled your DH over, but you can't help but feel frustrated by all the law breaking that goes by undetected, and it's normal to wonder if this was the best allocation of his time. I might see it as comforting that it was a slow enough day that he had time to give to something that he might have given a pass on on another day. But I have experienced police officers going beyond the scope of their duties at times, to the detriment of the people on the other end, so that tends to influence my opinion on this topic.

I will say that this served at least the purpose of making me aware of the 4'9" rule. I had honestly not heard that. My older daughter is legally able to ride without a booster, but she is shorter than 4-9. She recently stopped riding in her booster when it got moved to another car, and I didn't put the booster back because the seatbelt fits properly against her torso without the seat. It doesn't with me--it always rides up against my neck. I was going by fit and the law, not by height, but I'll revisit the topic now after reading this.
post #62 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSmomma6 View Post
Yeah, but 9 isn't 12. When you were 12 would you have sat in a booster? I didn't think so.
If it was the only way my mom would have driven me anyplace I would have.
post #63 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
If it was the only way my mom would have driven me anyplace I would have.

Exactly. Joe fights me on some things that he thinks are unfair- I can't think of an example right now, but ykwim- typical seven year old stuff- but he does not argue about the booster because he knows it is non negotiable. (Although his dad is getting on my nerves of late, telling HIM and me that Joe does not NEED to be in a booster according to state law. We are on the border of two states, the state he lives in is 6 & 60, the state Joe & I live in is 8 & 80, so I am going by MY state lol... either way it is only a few more months.)
post #64 of 205
The way the laws work (my understanding) is this: when DD turns 6yo, you weigh her. If she is still under 60 pounds, she's still in a booster seat. If she is under 6yo and over 60 pounds, she's still in a booster seat.

You were okay on both fronts. I'd keep a copy of her birth certificate and a recent stats sheet (height/weight) in the car for this type of BS.

And yes, that's what cops are there for. However, when a cop is told the child is over the weight and age minimum, he should say "okay, I was just checking" and MOVE ON!

Jenn
post #65 of 205
Well it depends on where you are. The way I read the California law is that it is 6 years or 60 pounds. That means that if you are six years old you no longer need a booster even if you weigh 40 pounds. If you are 60 pounds and three years old, no booster needed by law. It doesn't say 6 years and 60 pounds, it says or. For rear facing infants the law is usually something like rear facing until one year old and at least 20 pounds, so in that case both are needed (although after the Britney Spears case it seems CA does not have this law...). I'm not agreeing with the 6 or 60, because my 6 year old is tiny and just because he can go without doesn't mean he should, but reading the little excerpt of the law he is legally ok to ride without at 45 pounds. I haven't studied the law, but I quickly reviewed it when he turned 6, and it was definitely an OR. In this case the op met both, so definitely not borderline, I think borderline are the kids that meet one without the other, but even they are within the law. I am glad the police are checking for this though, I hope it saves some lives.
post #66 of 205
Just because you were 'within the law' of your state, OP, does not mean you were within the laws of physics. Laws change from state to state. The laws of physics don't.

Your husband got pulled over because the cop thought your daughter may have been improperly restrained. GOOD FOR HIM. THANK GOD for cops who take their jobs seriously. He didn't get a ticket. I don't know WHAT you are complaining about.

According to the laws of physics, your dd should still be in a booster. You learned something today. Spend the 20 bucks and buy the girl a booster. She'll be safer.
post #67 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel View Post
Just because you were 'within the law' of your state, OP, does not mean you were within the laws of physics. Laws change from state to state. The laws of physics don't.

Your husband got pulled over because the cop thought your daughter may have been improperly restrained. GOOD FOR HIM. THANK GOD for cops who take their jobs seriously. He didn't get a ticket. I don't know WHAT you are complaining about.

According to the laws of physics, your dd should still be in a booster. You learned something today. Spend the 20 bucks and buy the girl a booster. She'll be safer.
Yea for the third time, my intent was not to debate other peoples OPINIONS of car seat laws, but to vent about a cop wasting everyones time and making my DD late for school when we were WELL WITHIN THE LAW. I also had never heard of this 4'9" thing until this thread. DD is 4'3".

And when they start designing cars that you can put multipal carseats/booster seats into maybe I will think about it. Until then, the children who don't need them, don't ride in them so I can fit the ones that do in. Of course I still say they should simply make seatbelts that can be used by everyone. Most adults can't use them properly.

Oh and California law is 6 years old or 60 lbs, whichever is FIRST. (Native Californian here.)
post #68 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Yea for the third time, my intent was not to debate other peoples OPINIONS of car seat laws, but to vent about a cop wasting everyones time and making my DD late for school when we were WELL WITHIN THE LAW. I also had never heard of this 4'9" thing until this thread. DD is 4'3".

And when they start designing cars that you can put multipal carseats/booster seats into maybe I will think about it. Until then, the children who don't need them, don't ride in them so I can fit the ones that do in. Of course I still say they should simply make seatbelts that can be used by everyone. Most adults can't use them properly.

Oh and California law is 6 years old or 60 lbs, whichever is FIRST. (Native Californian here.)
Has nothing to do with opinions. This is researchable, verifiable fact. It's not a secret that a child under 4'9" isn't safe in a car seat. You keep listing lots of shouldas/oughttas, but the facts remain the same.

I'm really only interested in this post in regards to the safety of your dc. I don't feel that the cop did anything wrong. In fact, I admire his dedication to your child's safety.

You've been educated as to the laws of physics (again, the laws of California are somewhat irrelevant). Now that you are aware your dd isn't safe, won't you just buy her a booster?
post #69 of 205
It's amazing to me that so many of you say that you'd keep your child in a booster seat until they are 100lbs. I weighed 98lbs until I was 22 years old. It took my THIRD child to push me over the 100lb mark. I'm quite certain that I'd not have sat in a booster until I was 22 years old. I'm only 110lbs now, and 5'7" tall. Who's to say that if I were to get into an accident that my seatbelt would lock up properly or would it assume that I should be broader?

Also, and I wish I had the info here, my oldest dd takes a child development class in high school where she recently learned that carseats really reach their maximum efficiency at 2 years of age. A 50lb 8yo would be no safer in a booster seat than in a seatbelt according to this study. I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm certainly abiding by the law and my own comfort level when it comes to carseats but it's an interresting thing to consider.
post #70 of 205
Not debating anything, but I thought this was interesting:
Quote:
Seatbelt/Child Restraint Laws
The following are general descriptions of Oregon's safety belt and child restraint laws. Specific wording of statutory requirements can be found at ORS 811.210 - 811.225. (Note: You will have to scroll down to the appropriate statute number).

ADULT BELT LAW: Oregon law requires that all motor vehicle operators and passengers be properly secured with a safety belt or safety harness. Limited exemptions are allowed under ORS 811.215. Vehicle owners are required to maintain belt systems in working order.

CHILD RESTRAINT LAW: Child passengers must be restrained in approved child safety seats until age four OR forty pounds.

BOOSTER SEAT LAW: Once a child has attained four years of age OR forty pounds in weight, then the child must be restrained in a booster seat until age six AND sixty pounds. This means the booster requirement would apply to children older than six if they have not yet attained sixty pounds, and likewise would apply to a child over sixty pounds IF they have not yet reached age six. The booster law does not apply to vehicles with lap-only belts in the rear seat.

NATIONAL "BEST PRACTICE" RECOMMENDATIONS: USDOT National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recommends the following for maximizing your child passengers' safety:

Child Seats. Children should ride in a child safety seat with a harness until their shoulders are above the top set of strap slots (usually until they are 4 years old). The harness provides upper torso, head, and neck protection.

Booster Seats. When children have outgrown their safety seat, they should ride in an age/size appropriate restraint, such as a belt-positioning booster seat. In general, children who have outgrown child safety seats should be properly restrained in booster seats until they are at least 8 years old. However, children who reach a height of 4 feet 9 inches before their eighth birthday may be ready for adult safety belts.

Back Seating. Children aged twelve and under should ride in rear seating positions. Research indicates that such rear positioning reduces the risk of crash injury by 37% for that age group.
From the Oregon Department of Transportation.

I wonder why they put the recommendations on there. It's great that they do, but if they think it's important enough to list right below the Oregon laws, why not just make it the law?
post #71 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by wende View Post
It's amazing to me that so many of you say that you'd keep your child in a booster seat until they are 100lbs. I weighed 98lbs until I was 22 years old. It took my THIRD child to push me over the 100lb mark. I'm quite certain that I'd not have sat in a booster until I was 22 years old. I'm only 110lbs now, and 5'7" tall. Who's to say that if I were to get into an accident that my seatbelt would lock up properly or would it assume that I should be broader?
But, you are missing the part about being 4' 9". At that point, they don't need to be in there. I think most of the posters here are aware of that, but maybe some aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wende View Post
Also, and I wish I had the info here, my oldest dd takes a child development class in high school where she recently learned that carseats really reach their maximum efficiency at 2 years of age. A 50lb 8yo would be no safer in a booster seat than in a seatbelt according to this study. I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm certainly abiding by the law and my own comfort level when it comes to carseats but it's an interresting thing to consider.
I am really curious to know how to locate this study and how old it is. What kind of seats is it based on and so on?
post #72 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post

I am really curious to know how to locate this study and how old it is. What kind of seats is it based on and so on?

I am sure the study referred to that bogus load-of-poop done by the so-called "Freakonomics" professor (who is, btw, an economist and has no knowledge of child safety).

He has been roundly criticized for poorly interpretting his data. He failed to take into account the number of carseats which were improperly installed. His statistical analysis is therefore irrelevant.
post #73 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel View Post
I am sure the study referred to that bogus load-of-poop done by the so-called "Freakonomics" professor (who is, btw, an economist and has no knowledge of child safety).

He has been roundly criticized for poorly interpretting his data. He failed to take into account the number of carseats which were improperly installed. His statistical analysis is therefore irrelevant.
Well, the other thing I was thinking of is race car drivers. Aren't they in harnesses too? I find it highly unlikely that they are out of the loop, so to speak, on safety restraints.
post #74 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel View Post
Has nothing to do with opinions. This is researchable, verifiable fact. It's not a secret that a child under 4'9" isn't safe in a car seat. You keep listing lots of shouldas/oughttas, but the facts remain the same.

I'm really only interested in this post in regards to the safety of your dc. I don't feel that the cop did anything wrong. In fact, I admire his dedication to your child's safety.

You've been educated as to the laws of physics (again, the laws of California are somewhat irrelevant). Now that you are aware your dd isn't safe, won't you just buy her a booster?
Joannarachel - while I definitely agree with your opinion wholeheartedly, and I don't think the officer was wrong to check, I have to say that I think the point is that even if research supports your position, the police are there to enforce the law, not an opinion of what the law should be. If laws need to be changed that has to be done at the legislative level, and police can not decide that the law should be XYZ and therefore stop someone based on their own interpretation. That would be chaos, obviously. In this case the OP was simply stating that in her opinion her child clearly met the law and she felt they shouldn't have been stopped. I think it is hard to judge size and age, and I'm glad the police care enough to stop people to check, but I don't think that is the same as saying that the police are right to stop her because it is unsafe. They might be right to stop because they couldn't tell if she was old enough or big enough, but if they knew she was (and I'm sure they didn't) they would have no basis for the stop.
post #75 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post
I am a mean mom. My kids will be in booster seats until they are 4'9", no matter what their age. If for some reason they are shorter than that when they are wanting their driver's liscence, we will have the car altered to accomodate them. They will stay in the actual car seat until they grow out of it, and that won't be until either 65 or 100lbs (we are only at 43 right now, so I don't have the info in my head). Most of the other kids at preschool are just in boosters.

Cars are simply not safe for anybody under that. The safety devices are not designed to keep them safe smaller than that. Plus, as the age limits have gone up, the booster seats have gotten much more "kid fashion sense" friendly. A lot of the boosters look downright cool.

I can deal with being the 'bad guy' a whole lot better than greiving the injury or loss of a child when there was an easy solution for it to not happen.
Do you really think a booster seat makes your child completely safe? There's no such thing as a safe person of any age riding around in a car. I don't care how long you keep them in a booster seat, how many air bags your car has etc, there are no guarantees in life.
post #76 of 205
As this has turned into a carseat informatin thread, I'm going to go ahead and move it to Parenting.
post #77 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSmomma6 View Post
Yeah, but 9 isn't 12. When you were 12 would you have sat in a booster? I didn't think so.
Haven't read the rest of the thread yet...but I am JUST old enough to remember the total and complete embarassment I experienced when my parents so cruelly forced me to wear a seatbelt when that became law...I think I was around 12.

Nasty ass parents I had, just HORRIBLE. I am still in therapy today about the trauma they caused me.

Guess what...I got over it.
post #78 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by shannon0218 View Post
Haven't read the rest of the thread yet...but I am JUST old enough to remember the total and complete embarassment I experienced when my parents so cruelly forced me to wear a seatbelt when that became law...I think I was around 12.

Nasty ass parents I had, just HORRIBLE. I am still in therapy today about the trauma they caused me.

Guess what...I got over it.
post #79 of 205
:
post #80 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeThinkinMama View Post
Do you really think a booster seat makes your child completely safe? There's no such thing as a safe person of any age riding around in a car. I don't care how long you keep them in a booster seat, how many air bags your car has etc, there are no guarantees in life.
Where has anyone said it was a guarentee--it's all about being as safe as you can and as is reasonable. Should we also decide that bike helmets are silly because they can't make your child completely safe if he collides with a transport truck??
Sorry, I find this to be a completely nonsensical statement. Hey, I have an idea, why don't we all hire rehabilitated pedophiles as babysitters, after all, do we really think we're guarenteed of a safe sitter just because they didn't have a criminal record before taking care of our children??
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