time-outs in Montessori

[jlarmon]

Hi- I'm trying to get a better understanding Montessori disipline. I have two girls ages 3 and 4 who started a Mont. school in Aug. The teacher has given them some form of time-out almost everyday. I will give some short examples to clarify. My 4 year old failed to tell a boy, who had been waiting for the work she was using, that she was done. For that, she sat in time-out for 25 minutes. My 3 year old went into line without first getting her backpack. For this, she had a time-out and will not be able to play outside at recess tomorrow. I could go on and on, but truly, most of the time I can not understand at all why they are being punished even when the teacher tries to explain. Am I dealing with an unusually strict teacher, or is this all part of Montessori? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I will be meeting with the teacher on Monday eve. and would like to have a better understanding of the Montessori approach.
Thanks!

[flyingspaghettimama]

Uh, no. She is incredibly strict, and from my understanding, not implementing Montessori's method at all. That is very sad, and very wrong, and very developmentally inappropriate on many levels. 25 minutes for a four-year old is totally messed-up. If your kids don't hate school yet, I imagine they will soon.

I hope Lilliana or another M teacher can come by and exactly quote what Montessori said about time-outs.

I personally would either demand change or pull my children. That's almost mentally abusive.

[Thalia the Muse]

No one should be giving a four-year-old a 25-minute timeout, or giving a three-year-old a next-day punishment! Especially since I can't figure out what they're supposed to have done wrong.

My daughter's Montessori did use timeouts, but they were only a few minutes long and reserved for infractions like hitting, or repeatedly disobeying the teacher.

[karlin]

My son's teacher doesn't use any punishment. She only tells the students what they should and shouldn't do.

Your situation would upset me so much I'd take my child out immediately.

[Drummer's Wife]

yeah doesn't sound very montessori to me. We never used "time-outs" atleast not in the traditional way. If a child were hitting and I mights say stop, hitting hurts, keep your hands on your own body, etc... and if necessary ask the child to walk away from the situation. Redirection to another activity if they were abusing materials or such but not a isolated time out on a chair for any length of time. The actual behavior should be approached and gently corrected. If a child was throwing food at the table I would have them go pick it up and put it in the compst and if it continued they would be asked to leave the table, as it was explained that we eat while we are sitting down, throwing food means you must be done and not hungry.

Why would it be your dd's responsibility to tell another child that she was done with her work? If he was so interested in it, he'd see when she put it away and choose it on his own.

I would be very concerned about this teacher/directress and pull my kids, Montessori isn't cheap, if you are paying for it you might as well get the real thing.

[Flor]

Ds's M school doesn't use time-outs. How many kids are in the room? We have 6 so the idea that a time out would be necessary in a small room is strange to me.

[Lillianna]

I agree with all PPs...this sounds like an unhealthy situation for your daughters.

There is no way I would ever expect a child to be responsible for telling anyone else about being done with her materials (I am AMI trained, 10 yrs in Children's House, FYI). First of all, if something is being used by another child, there shouldn't be anyone waiting around for it to be done. The child who wants to use it should be helped to find something else to do unless he is observing quietly. Secondly, I can't imagine putting a child in "time out" (does she use these words?) for anything so trivial for so long a time. M only refers to using a variation of time out for extreme cases (when a child is being extremely disruptive or aggressive behavior). Her version was to sit the child down at a table, in full view of the class, and bring him different activities to do. She believed that only through activity could children develop discipline. She discusses rewards and punishments (and advocate for neither) in Absorbent Mind (Ch 24), The Discovery of the Child (Ch 4), The Secret of Childhood (Pt 2, Ch 2). She also discusses that every child should have free access between indoors and outdoors and would never hold a child away from outdoor activites for any reason whatsoever. Actually she views being outdoors as an essential part of good health and has written extensively about the child in nature. (Discovery of the Child, Ch 5; others) M advocates respect for the child, understanding three levels of obedience and normalization as a process as well as not making a child's mistakes obvious in a punitive way. Another very pertinent topic here is the spiritual preparation of the adult and that the adult needs to cultivate humility and not be so concerned with controlling everything ('the adult needs to have trust that the child's true nature will reveal itself...'). Here are some references for the role of the Directress: Absorbent Mind, Ch 27, Secret of Childhood, Pt. 2, Ch 1. Let me know if you have other books or if you don't have any, I could post a few quotes for you if it would help at your meeting.

[jlarmon]

Thanks for your comments!

Thank you so much for your comments today. I have been feeling really bad about all of this because I know what you are saying is true. I can not send them back there. Does she really think I would send DD to sit and cry for recess tomorrow?! It is really mind blowing to me. She has 30 kids from 3-6 in the class with one non-english speaking assistant and I think she just gets really irritated by the children. I don't know. No excuse. I found another school with openings that I can visit on Tuesday. I really appreciate the references to other Montessori writings, because I will be meeting with her on Monday and want to express to her how wrong she is in her approach to discipline. Thanks a ton.

[MomToKandE]

My dd spent 2 years in a Montessori primary class and my nephew is in the toddler program at the same school. My dd did get sent to the office once when she was almost 4. It was her first week of school and when it was time to come inside from recess she refused because "I'm not done playing yet". Not sure how long she was there but it wasn't a formal "time out".

I think simply refusing to come inside is a pretty big deal so I was fine with this.

My nephew has had to sit at "the peace table" with another boy that he's had issues with a few times. Not sure exactly how that goes but I think the idea is to mediate a soloution between the 2 kids that are having trouble.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Please do come back and tell us how it goes, and if you found another school.

[Sammy321]

As a Montessori educator I can assure you that what is happening to your children isn't 'Montessori', and it isn't taught in ANY child development class, anywhere - Montessori or not!

Although the purpose and proper use of 'time-outs' is often misunderstood, for teachers there is a guideline of about one minute / child's age. For example, a 4 year old would sit out for MAXIMUM 4 minutes.

Of course, the reason for the time-out is to remove the child from the situation that he or she couldn't handle well, and to give them time to think, breathe, and prepare to become involved again. Children tend to be more action-oriented than thoughtful when they are overly emotional and caught up in a situation, so it gives them pause for thought. It isn't a punishment, it is a kindness for the child, and also for the class as a whole; if the child isn't allowed to misbehave (for example, hitting another person) then the whole class is safer and happier. The time-out idea is only to be used in those situations when the child needs a break, and when removing them (temporarily) will help everyone involved.

The 'teacher' your children have been unfortunate enough to be assigned to is obviously unclear about how to manage the class and is becoming strict and controlling. The fact that your child managed to sit still for 25 minutes is a testament to her maturity and self-discipline, and seems to have more self-control than the teacher! I'm glad she told you what happened, and that you have chosen to remove her from that toxic situation.

Best of luck!

[kaydee]

Yeah, not Montessori at all--at least, not a Montessori school following the compassionate pedagogy on which the movement was founded. There are no time outs in my son's M school; there are redirects, conversations with teachers away from the group and the work, and a peaceful resolution table where students (even the very young ones) work out their differences.

[milli74]

Hi I am new in this forum, I am faced with almost the same situation with my 3 year old daughter and I know thats a wrong way of dealing with kids. What I want to know - Is there no way we can complain about the school, their teachers. Why sh we pull out our kids from the school and who knows how the other school going to be. There sh be check on such bad attitude of the teachers. This would indeed help other kids also facing the same problem. Can anyone suggest on this regards ?

[Thalia the Muse]

Milli, you can absolutely complain to the school. You're purchasing a service from them -- not an inexpensive one! -- and you are more than entitled to give them feedback and tell them that certain conditions are unacceptable to you, and you'll have to pull your child if they can't improve.

[jlarmon]

Hi Milli, the teacher at my girls school was the director and there was only one class. I really had no choice but to pull them because there was nobody above her to complain to. When I eventually talked to her, she made no claim that she was following any "Montessori" method of discipline (obviously she wasn't). She just said that this was how SHE handles discipline. I still have a lot of respect for Montessori, but I am looking into more traditional preschools for my girls. I think I will try to adopt more mont. ideas into our home rather than try another Mont. school.