mediation

[TAC]

I know I've been on the forum a couple of times lately... sorry

X has called for mediation. I really don't want to go, but I know that I need to try to work together. X emailed me a month ago about childcare expense. he is ordered to pay 50% of childcare expense. When I had my teenage friend watch dc for me x was extremely difficult He refused to pay unless he had details and reciepts of every day she watched dc. He refused to pay unless he had her social security number.

I decided I'm not playing this anymore, and I enrolled dc in the afterschool program at thier school. It is a set amount every month, it is a state regulated organization, and there is no playing with the details. As a matter of fact x also put dc in the same program. His times are a little more relaxed. He picks them up by 3pm, and sometimes they are there sometimes they are not.

X offered to leave his job early on my days and watch dc for me. He offered to help them with their homework and feed them dinner too if I needed it. The truth is that I think he has too much time with them as it is, and I think he has a negative influence on them. I think he is abusive and controlling. I would love to limit his time. When I thanked him for his offer and told him I was comfortable with the present situation he exploded. He told me since he offered and was available, and I said no... he would no longer pay. Well he knows I'll have his ass in court in seconds, and now he has no atty.

This brings us to now. He has called mediation. He wants to discuss childcare. With all the other things that are going on this is the issue he wants to discuss. I very reluctantly agreed. I am frightened mama's. I know he won't listen. I know he has his own agenda. I can't very well go in and say you are abusive and I don't want the children with you.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I agreed because I was afraid if I didn't I would come off as being unreasonable. How do I go in prepared? I've never done this before.

[root*children]

You need to tell him that mediation is only when you basically already agree on things, which it sounds like you two don't. A mediator is just a guy who puts stuff in writing, he won't tell you what to do or really do much to resolve issues, he can sometimes help to find a middle ground. But he's not a marraige counselor - and it sounds like there are much deeper issues underlying this, not just childcare, so although you can try mediation, there's a good chance nothing productive will come from it. Try to find one with a sliding scale payment, so you're not out a ton of money!

Also, shame on him for trying to get the SSN for a TEENAGE babysitter!! I'm SURE they're not charging enough for that to be a tax deduction!

[root*children]

Sorry, to better answer your question - to go prepared, you just need to know EXACTLY how you want the childcare situation to work. I mean, to the last freakin detail. Don't go and be wishy-washy about it, because whatever gets written down will go to a lawyer and you want to make sure it's REALLY what you want. Know how many days you want him to have DC, which days, for how long, who does p/u, who does d/o, who pays, how compensation is made to the one who is paying... what childcare costs exactly do you want to split - and things like the babysitter - do you want to just go by word of mouth or do you need reciepts for everything he'll help pay for. Any other details you can think of... get them ALL in writting. That way you can bring in your paper in with all your thoughts written down, and if you get overwhelmed or scared by the mediation, you can just refer to what you've already written.

[TAC]

Basically I don't want anything to be changed at all. I don't want x to have any more time with dc. As a matter of fact it is my plan to have his wages garnished along with cs so I can return to the set-up I had before and not have to worry about all his nonsense. If I ask for a specific amount he cannot bully me with anything.

[root*children]

It sounds like there's no point in mediation, since you're not flexible here (and that said in a good way - I wouldn't be either!). The mediator can't help you with garnishing wages, etc. though - you have to go through child services or something?

[TAC]

See that is my dilemma. I have agreed so I can appear reasonable. But I really don't want a change. I was persuaded to come because mediation said at least we can begin to open up the lines of communication between the two of you. I'm sure there are other issues to be discussed. How could I say no?

[root*children]

Well, just go and still have your entire plan for childcare written down, and that's that. Bring some other issues with you to talk about so the meeting time doesn't go wasted. Would that work?

[MsChatsAlot]

If you have a good mediator you might actually end up okay here. Everyone goes into mediation with their own idea of what they want and/or what they need. It is an alternative to court. You don't have to agree to anything. You have all the control and all the choices here. If you don't want to change anything, that is what you go in with and if you don't feel comfortable at the end with anything else...you leave.

In mediation, you and your ex are the ones who will come up with the agreement, the mediator is not there to give advice or opinions. If you cannot agree with your ex by the end of the mediation, then you leave and all that's been lost is some time....but you have shown you were willing to give it a try.

The important part about mediation is that both parties enter into it voluntarily. Right now, it doesn't seem like you are going voluntarily so much as you feel it will be used against you if you don't go. If you can start to view it as an opportunity to help your kids then it might make it better for you.

I think it is wise to go, give it your full effort, but you don't have to change your position at all. Know that you can leave at the end, refuse to make an agreement that you don't think is best for the kids, etc. It is in your control.

[freewitheft]

I'm so sorry mama. I keep sending good vibes your way and hoping to hear that your X has become somewhat rational, or at least less abusive towards you and the dc. *sigh* I know you've been through the ringer legally, with the GAL and all. Perhaps it's time to reach out to the social services network...leaving all the other issues aside for now, focus solely on whether there is any way for this man to see what effect he is having on his children's well-being. I know you've been to numerous professionals already. I'm talking about speaking with DV workers specifically. Let's face it, you may be divorced now, but you haven't exactly been safe from his abuse b/c of it, and the dc certainly aren't. No one should have to live like this. You've had so many doors shut in your face, but keep knocking on them anyways. There has to be someone, somewhere who can help you.

Good luck with the mediation. I agree with pp that you are under NO obligation to change your position and I hope you don't get bullied.

[MissLotus]

I think you've gotten good advice...and I agree with the PP (freewitheft, I think) about pursuing things on a deeper level. I've never been to mediation, and Lord knows my own situation is still in limbo (also dealing with a guy more interested in control than anything else)....but here's my question: Is he raising a stink mostly because of the money? Do you think he'd drop it (at least the after-school issue) if he didn't have to pay for that?

Not that I don't think you're entitled to the money; it's his responsibility too. But like you, I feel he should have less time with the kids since his presence is so negative. If compromising financially would give you more "power", I'd go for it. (Now I understand that doesn't always work, because then they'll look for their control fix somewhere else.) But maybe it's worth a shot.

[pranamama]

try to bring someone supportive with you, or an attorney, lots of moms have been pressured into agreements they didn't want during mediation.

[Lucy VanPelt]

I can't very well go in and say you are abusive and I don't want the children with you.

Yes, you can. I have said that and worse during mediation. LOL And, I meant every word. The mediator just sat quietly. If you have a good mediator, he or she will not intervene in your discourse except to keep the conversation moving toward whatever goal you are there to meet.

From the info you've shared here, I would suggest going to the mediation, hearing him out, and then telling him no whenever you feel the need. Just b/c he wants more time doesn't mean he has to have it. The mediator might say something along the lines of, "It's his right to have parenting time with the kids when you are not going to be with them." (Can you tell I've been in this position before? LOL) You would be well within your rights to reply with, "He has plenty of parenting time as it is. He is only requesting this b/c he doesn't want to have to dole out money for his kids. He's not really interested in actually spending time with them." That might shut the mediator up. It also makes it clear to your ex that you know what he's doing and won't stand for it.

The worst that can come of mediation not working is that you end up back in court. Odds are, the judge is not going to change things simply b/c your ex is requesting it. Esp. if you tell him about what happened with that babysitter. Make sure you make very clear that you are trying to be independent and do what's best for the kids. They are fine with the situation the way it is. Make sure you make it clear that you feel this is just a control tactic on the part of your ex.

With mediation, it really is You vs. Him and if you can hold your ground, you'll be fine. If he has to leave work early in order to provide this service for you, then he is not truly free to be with the kids during those times and there is no real parenting time to work out, by the way. As it is, he's at work during the times in question. He can continue to be at work...you don't want him.

eta: You could also try the route I took, if your ex has a tendancy to bite off more than he can chew when it comes to taking care of the kids.

I agreed to my ex's offer to keep the kids while I was in class. He flaked. Five months later, we went back to mediation (per his request) and I brought up how he hadn't watched the kids per our prior mediated agreement. Now, he does not ask for more parenting time (it's actually gotten whittled down to the bare minimum), b/c he has ruined any opportunity for mediator benevolence. (Our mediator is always the same woman and she's actually gotten snippy with him when he plays victim. She's a really good mediator, though. She usually keeps her feelings to herself. It's just that he really can drive anyone to the edges of reason. I think she does a good job of being neutral.)

So, if your ex is the sort who'll flake on you about this, maybe going with it will work out. If he doesn't act according to the mediated agreement, he loses face and no one's really going to pay attention to any subsequent whines of his on the matter in the future.

Good luck!

[cheyennemama]

I'm a psych grad student and one of my former profs is a mediator. He's a counselor and is partner with a lawyer. So they work together to work through emotional issues and divorce details as well. I'm sure there's similar mediators near you. And you don't have to agree with everything. Mediation helps work through the differences. I SO wish X and I could've gone that route but he was mental, so....no luck with that.

[Viewfinder]

Continuity with the aftercare program

There is also the issue of keeping your kids' lives as stable and routine as possible. So keeping them IN their aftercare program every day is meaningful. My dd has friends and activities and routines and makes plans to play with this one or that one in aftercare... to be there one week and not the next, it throws your kids AND the kids who want to hang with them off... these things affect social lives. Plus, there are activities that they miss, too, fun things, or boring things, but, it's all part of the stable routine of their lives.

So maybe you could use that as part of your arguement to keep the kids IN aftercare, and not with him. If you don't really feel like saying it's because your ex is not a positive influence... maybe too incendiary.

[j'smom]

I agree that their are two sides of the coin here. If you go, it could potentially help your dc. If you don't, it could potential harm you. But since there's the potential for the latter, I would try to make the best of the situation. I think it was a great move on your part to enroll them in the afterschool program for all the reasons you stated. I also don't agree with getting the babysitters ss#. That's weird. Although, it could've just been stupidity on his part and nothing more i.e. using it in a bad way. I wonder what he thought he could use it for...anyway, I would say, if he offered you what he did, then maybe you could offer a change back i.e. if you take the kids then, then change the other times so that it works out that he has the dc for the same amount as now. You exchange it for some of the time he has with them now. Does that make sense? Sorry it's so wordy. If he wants to help, let him, but don't give anything up. Remain steadfast in keeping everythign as equal as possible according to what the court says. I also agree with the response that there are more underlying issues here. Devil's advocate here, Maybe he is angry with himself for screwing up his marriage. Maybe he's devestated that it's over and doesn't know how to deal with this failure. Maybe he is like most dad's and doesn't know how to parent. What his controlling nature may be is based on all these and he doesn't know what else to do. I know, that sounds like I'm taking his side but I'm not. But maybe considering these things could help you in your approach or getting what you want.

[maybelle]

Originally Posted by pranamama

try to bring someone supportive with you, or an attorney, lots of moms have been pressured into agreements they didn't want during mediation.

Kind of like a legal doula .

[TAC]

what is a legal doula?

Right now on his weekends, he gets Friday, Saturday, Sunday night. I think I may ask for his Sunday nights. Historically homework does not get done on his time. I'm sure he is not prepared to sacrifice anything on his part. Negotiations don't work that way for him. I wish my brother was here. He has such a level head. I am going to contact my lawyer and find out if I really have to go, and if she advises me to go I will. I am prepared to negotiate just like pp said, and ask for something too. I am going to try to take someone with me. I have a co-worker that he has never met and I'll ask her. I don't want to ask anyone he knows. This is a small community, and I wouldn't wish his negative behavior on anyone that lives here and he knows. This person doesn't even live in the same community and he would never find her. Thanks for all the advice. I'll let everyone know what happens.

[ombra*luna]

Good idea bringing a co-worker. I think that's what the pp meant by a "legal doula" - having someone there whose job is to support you, as a doula would at a birth.

[maybelle]

Originally Posted by ombra*luna

Good idea bringing a co-worker. I think that's what the pp meant by a "legal doula" - having someone there whose job is to support you, as a doula would at a birth.

That's exactly what I meant !

[TAC]

Now x has contacted the children's psychologist. the one he despises and believes I have been conspiring with. He had a session with this psychologist. The psychologist called me and told me x wants to sit down with him and me and discuss ds and possiblity of medication and diagnosis. I agreed because I trust this doctor, he has been on board for ds and dd all along. He has been amazing for them. But pardon me if I am a little suspicious at all the attempts to "mediate"