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argument against circumcision  

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 
I posted this on another forum in response to someone who was making an argument for circumcision there. I thought I'd share it, and perhaps get some feedback. I didnt attempt to argue against the validity of the studies she was talking about. she didnt cite them, and I'm really not qualified to do that anyway. instead, I was trying to make one of those even if you're right, you're wrong arguments.

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Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection against penile cancer.
there arent any good studies on this, but the one I have found indicated uncircumcised men are 3 times as likely as uncircumcised men to get penile cancer. given the rarity of penile cancer in the first place, it would take approximately 100,000 circumcisions to prevent 1 case of penile cancer.

penile cancer overwhelmingly takes place during old age when a person is old enough to consent to a circumcision. infants are not at risk.

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Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?
again, there are no good studies on this, but lets suppose you are right. about 1 in 12,500 women get it in England each year. circumcising every man in the England would bring this down to 1 in 15,625. if we assume about 10% of men are already circumcised, then that requires circumcising 22,500,000 more. this would prevent 400 cases of cervical cancer. or 56,250 circumcisions to prevent 1 case of cervical cancer.

as above, infacts are not at risk of HPV. Men are not at risk until they become sexually active which usually happens in their teen years when they are old enough (or should be old enough) to give or withhold consent to a circumcision.

HPV is also harmless for men. amputating part of someone body without their informed consent for someone else's medical benefit is never justified.

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Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.
lots of flawed studies out there, but again lets suppose you are right. the estimate of the current number of males in the US with HIV is 865,050. .5% of the male population. circumcise the remaining half of the male population (75,000,000) and this goes down to 108,131.25 or .07% of the male population. 756,918.75 cases of HIV prevented. 99 circumcisions to prevent 1 case.

and course, exactly as before, infants are not at risk for contracting HIV. Men arent at risk until they are old enough to give informed consent to a circumcision.

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Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.
then they can elect to get a circumcision as an adult. its a myth that uncircumcised penis's are unhygeinic. The idea that it should be done against their will to please their future partners is barbaric. if a man thought that the clitoral hood and/or labia were unnattractive, would that be a good enough reason to have them surgically removed from their daughters in infancy?

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Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.
I'm having trouble finding information on this, but I found somthing indicating that the risk is 4% for uncircumcised boys. no idea if its good information or not. I havent found anything on the rate for circumcised boys. but if the 4% number is correct, the benefit does not outweight the loss.

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Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.
this is the information I found. I'll just use the graph.
http://www.infocirc.org/chart1.jpg

again, very little benefit, and UTIs are treatable.


so, even if all these benefits actually exist, they are blown way out of proportion, most don't even effect children. circumcisions have an estimated short term complication rate of 2 to 10 percent. these include infections, hemorrhage, surgical mishap, and complications from anaethetics if used.

there are also long term complications such as:

* Meatal stenosis
* Urinary retention
* The slowing down of venous blood flow (venous stasis)
* Concealed penis
* Adhesions
* Skin bridge
* Painful erections

this isnt even counting the loss of an important organ
post #2 of 6
Quote:
there arent any good studies on this, but the one I have found indicated uncircumcised men are 3 times as likely as uncircumcised men to get penile cancer. given the rarity of penile cancer in the first place, it would take approximately 100,000 circumcisions to prevent 1 case of penile cancer.
You need to change one of the bold uncircumcised ones.
post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 
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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMoMof2 View Post
You need to change one of the bold uncircumcised ones.
heh heh, whoops. I'm sure she understood what I meant though.
post #4 of 6
I should have added that you did a very good job with that but I had a 2yo needing my attention. Good job getting the word out
post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMoMof2 View Post
I should have added that you did a very good job with that but I had a 2yo needing my attention. Good job getting the word out
thanks

I just find it strange that so few people point out that infants arent even at risk for these diseases that circumcision supposedly provides protection against.
post #6 of 6
Great job! I would also tackle this person on the "better sex" front. Circumcision removes half the nerve endings of the penis. Does fewer nerve endings = better sex? Ask the women whether sex would be better or worse with half of the nerves in their genitals removed.
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