Having a hard time dealing with the anger..

[Amber Lion]

I've been having a hard time this weekend, still am, dealing with the anger that just keeps coming up about the whole circ issue. It's only recently that I think I've become passionate about being anti-circ. Before I just knew I'd never circ my own sons and before that, I'd never given a thought to circ. The very first time I actually thought about it, it seemed obvious not to.

My brother was circ'd, I would have been if I was a boy, my husband is circ'd, I've never been with an intact man, I have only ever seen one intact penis in my entire life!!!! That never bothered me before. Now it pisses me off!

I look at my husband's penis and I just get sad. I look at every guy/baby boy IRL and wonder, is he circ'd? I can't help but jump down the throats of anyone who circ'd their child, or who doesn't see the harm in it, or tells me I have to respect someone else's choice to circ their son.

My whole weekend was thrown off and I was in a terrible mood because I'd just left a forum that I had really enjoyed, had been supported through a big issue in my life on, because the moderators interpretation of forum rules did not allow anyone to call circ mutilation because that was "guilt inducing". They told me I had to respect their choice to circ and not try and change their opinion or leave. So I left. I almost cried to see these women who were so Right On (imo, obviously) on so many issues, but so far off on this one! It was only one thread, but it changed my view of everyone on the entire forum and I just couldn't view any of them with love anymore, just anger and sorrow. They asked me to leave if I couldn't let it go, and I just couldn't, so I left.

Does becoming an "intactivist" change you for life? I feel like I don't know who I am anymore, this anger is so all pervasive and I can't let it go. My husband is irritated (he had to hang out with me in my terrible mood all weekend), "just let it go, you can't change the world!" he tells me. Somehow I still feel responsible for it though.

Sigh.

[phatchristy]

Originally Posted by Amber Lion

Does becoming an "intactivist" change you for life? I feel like I don't know who I am anymore, this anger is so all pervasive and I can't let it go. My husband is irritated (he had to hang out with me in my terrible mood all weekend), "just let it go, you can't change the world!" he tells me. Somehow I still feel responsible for it though.

Sigh.

I think that it has changed my life completely...it the fact that if anyone even questions circumcision openly and honestly that the conclusions are obvious. Yet, it is so obvious, yet people still do it, don't question it and the US gov't does nothing to protect the innocent babies.

It is frustrating, anger inducing and illogical....I still can't wrap my brain around the fact that it continues in the US...a country which claims to be all about human rights.

It has changed my marriage (mostly for the good, I internalize the bad as I am also aware of what my DH is missing).

[2crazykids]

I had to leave a local mommies board here b/c of circ as well...I just couldn't take the pro-circing crap that everyone was spewing so I gave them all a "what for" and said bu-bye : . I don't need anyone telling me my kid is "unclean" b/c he's intact...Ooooo, I get so steamed about this!

Other than this issue I acutally had a lot in common with these mommies and then this happened.

I feel for you mama, it sucks.

[mamato271828]

Amber Lion - you put into words what I have been feeling lately. I also have recently become passionate about this issue and it seems to be changing my life (for the good, I think!). But I have been dealing with anger, depression, hopelessness, more anger, etc. I am sad for my DH, I have never been with an intact man either and I feel bad for even wanting to suggest to my DH to look into restoring. I want nothing to do with people who circ their sons. I couldn't get to sleep last night because I was thinking of a former friend who circ'd her son without thinking about it at all - and after he had recently been in the NICU due to complications from birth! Hadn't he had enough to endure? And this was half a year ago and it still makes me extremely upset.

I just wanted to let you know I feel very much the same. Hopefully it will help us to know others are out there struggling with this issue. Thank you so much for sharing your feelings. I think I do feel a bit better and no so alone.

[13Sandals]

me too Amber Lion. My sons aren't circ'd, but I recently became very passionate about it. I think about it a lot - the more I know, the more confused and upset I become that doctors in this country agree to continue the practice, and parents continue to request it be done. this is affecting my life - my friend is having her first boy - first she wasn't thinking of having it done, now she's getting a lot of pressure to have it done and is asking for info in case she decides not to have it done. I'm beside my self. what if I'm not doing enough - i'm totally consumed with it. also, I know she's doing the research and if she chooses to do it anyway - I'll never feel the same way about her again - its a little depressing. how can I be so 'unmainstream' when this barbaric practice looks so black and white to me?

[kldliam]

OP: Does becoming an "intactivist" change you for life? I feel like I don't know who I am anymore, this anger is so all pervasive and I can't let it go.

This has changed my life & all of my relationships for sure. I lost my beautiful rose-colored glasses and now the world is a dirty rotten unsafe place for children. I am deeply ashamed of humanity for casually inflicting this kind pain, fear and trauma on children. We as humans are suppose to have higher intelligence! Most of us are so manipulated by society in so many ways, it is just unfathomable.

My God, where have I landed and why?

[melanie83103]

I didnt used to feel passionate about it, either. I knew I wouldnt circ my future sons, but other than that, I didnt think about it. Now I am so horrified that this terrible, painful practice is carried out every day on innocent little babies.

Just this weekend I was telling my DH that I want to go into politics so that I can propose a law outlawing circ....

Melanie

[Quirky]

It has become all-consuming and very anger-inducing for me. On the one hand, I'm happy I swallowed the red pill and stopped living in the Matrix fantasy land of "circ is necessary, circ is good, blah blah blah" but OTOH now I have to fight against the evil and the just deluded for the rest of my life.

I think this is one of the huge social justice issues of our time. If other women could spend their lives fighting for the right to vote, or for civil rights, or to end child labor, or to end slavery.....then we can do this. Yes, we're going to be angry. Yes, it's going to be all-consuming. But at an absolute minimum, we can break the cycle of violence with our own sons, and then we can work to educate our families, our friends, our doctors and nurses, our on-line acquaintanceship....every little bit helps end this evil that has been going on in our country for more than 150 years, and won't end overnight.

[phoebemommy]

I feel this way, too. But it's not just RIC, it's so many things since becoming a parent. I've realized the world of pregnancy, babies, and children is full of stuff that everybody does that makes no sense. And it's like I have to fight to keep that stuff out of our lives because it's so pervasive. I was talking to dh about it this weekend -- he said he thought I was obsessed with doing the best thing. I think it's different, though -- I'm obsessed with not doing stupid things just because everybody else does. And not letting stupid things be done to my son by people I'm told I should trust.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by Amber Lion

My whole weekend was thrown off and I was in a terrible mood because I'd just left a forum that I had really enjoyed, had been supported through a big issue in my life on, because the moderators interpretation of forum rules did not allow anyone to call circ mutilation because that was "guilt inducing". They told me I had to respect their choice to circ and not try and change their opinion or leave. So I left. I almost cried to see these women who were so Right On (imo, obviously) on so many issues, but so far off on this one! It was only one thread, but it changed my view of everyone on the entire forum and I just couldn't view any of them with love anymore, just anger and sorrow. They asked me to leave if I couldn't let it go, and I just couldn't, so I left.

Very soon before I came here, I left another forum for similar reasons. It was a forum run primarily by women, and I really respected the people there. They helped a lot of people, and I know they respected me too (apparently they thought I was a good guy or something ;-)).
I'd been on the forum for years, and I finally decided I would ask them for help and support with regard to my circumcision and my struggles therein.

I got nothing.

All they did was argue with me. And they were arguing in a, "You need to seek counseling, because we care about you," sort of way. Maybe I do need to seek counseling, but certainly not of the sort they meant. That made me so angry. And I really felt betrayed. They seriously didn't acknowledge me. They called my feelings "valid", but only in the "all feelings are valid" sort of way. Even when I directly asked, they avoided using any words such as "justified". They defended parent's "right" to choose, etc.
I just stopped going to the website. I seriously can't go back there any more.

That's when I searched around the web for a forum that would be supportive of me, and that's when I found this place. The pouring out of support and virtual hugs was overwhelming. It made me cry. I was sooooo happy.

But yeah. Being anti-circ will change your life. Being a mutilated man myself, I seriously cannot be on civil terms with anyone that I know is pro-circ. I would as soon be friends with rapists.

I can understand why some guys refuse to acknowledge that they were violated, because it potentially puts a lot of relationships on the line. I think the same is true (to some degree or another) for anyone that really "gets it" on an emotional, gut level. It really does make some friendships and relationships difficult, or maybe even impossible. And I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that.

If you ever feel bad about it, just imagine trying to be friends with someone that was pro-FGM. If you wouldn't be friends with them--and you wouldn't feel bad about it--then there's no reason to feel bad about it with pro-circ people.

[kldliam]

But yeah. Being anti-circ will change your life. Being a mutilated man myself, I seriously cannot be on civil terms with anyone that I know is pro-circ. I would as soon be friends with rapists.

If you ever feel bad about it, just imagine trying to be friends with someone that was pro-FGM. If you wouldn't be friends with them--and you wouldn't feel bad about it--then there's no reason to feel bad about it with pro-circ people.

Thanks for posting this Blarg- it really helped me.

[trmpetplaya]

So many good posts on this thread... I'm a combination of proud to know all of you, sad that we're all affected so much by this issue, happy that we're all affected so much by this issue, and a million other feelings :

The anger... OMG, the anger. People telling me that my dh's penis is dirty and full of infections People getting mad at ME for telling them the simple truth that it's NOT dirty or infection-prone and thus taking away one of their main justifications for circumcising their sons. I may not have a son, but at least I know someone intimately who has had NO problems with his foreskin for over 2 decades.

In one way, having no son makes it easier... people are more likely to bring it up with me because they don't usually think I have (or should have) strong feelings one way or the other. It also makes it harder... people are more likely to disregard what I say/patronize me initially ('cause what would I know about it?) till I lay the bomb on them that dh is intact.

This issue has changed how I look at people, how I look at our culture, and how I look at other cultures. I can't see a little boy without wondering and hoping that he's intact. Thankfully I live where the rates are low so most of the time the boys probably are intact. I don't know what I would do if I lived where the rates were high :

I love you guys!!!

love and peace.

[Fi.]

Oh lord yes it changes you. You lose respect for SO many people.

[Amber Lion]

Wow, good to know I'm not alone!

I was just so amazed at how everything was effected once I realized this was something I was passionate about - not just against. One more thing to add to my list of Things To Do To Save The World.

Even Dh, who is circ'd and is anti-circ, doesn't get the depth of the emotion that I feel when someone says they circ'd their son. My biggest struggles in life surround the idea of personal freedom, of no one forcing one's views on another. This has been hard to reconcile with the fact that I want to impose my anti-circ view on people!!! And then I realized, that no, this wasn't going against my core belief because these babies are having their parents will enforced upon their bodies and that is probably the #1 thing I am against about circ. That this is happening to innocent babies who have no choice in the matter, indeed are viewed by many to not deserve a choice in this.

[phoebemommy]

Originally Posted by Amber Lion

Even Dh, who is circ'd and is anti-circ, doesn't get the depth of the emotion that I feel when someone says they circ'd their son.

With my DH, too. And I feel bad talking too heatedly about it with him because I worry that it'll make him feel bad.

[Paper-Bag-Princess]

Originally Posted by Fi.

Oh lord yes it changes you. You lose respect for SO many people.

Don't I know it.

I've left two very mainstream boards for the same reasons (for those who may be lurking, no, I wasn't banned ). The hypocrisy and double standards were just too much to bear any longer. The absolute idiocy of these "arguments" were a total mind #%^& and the people trying to incite and/or derail the debate with semantics aren't worth my concern. They simply have no bearing on my life and the moment I let that go, what sweet relief!

My anger is directed at the ridiculousness of the pro-circumcision group, and the groups (or places) that feel so threatened by idle threats and ultimatums that they feel they need to appease them. They are doing everyone a great disservice when they cowtow in order to appease.

I have to agree with some of the pp's in this thread. Knowing what I now know, it is hard to be placed in this position (one that I took up willingly, btw), but when the other option is to swallow the load of malarkey that some people eat up with such eagerness, I have to pass. My son is intact because I 'met' some wonderful people who encouraged me to do my research. In that process, I learned that my entire family is intact (except for my nephew), I learned the functions of the foreskin, and I got an ugly lesson in people who are willing to do and say anything to justify the abhorrent.

all of this just to say, I know how you feel.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by Amber Lion

Even Dh, who is circ'd and is anti-circ, doesn't get the depth of the emotion that I feel when someone says they circ'd their son.

I seriously cannot fathom that. I don't understand how any informed, circumcised guy can feel anything less than absolutely violated and robbed.

Dunno, maybe it's just because I'm such a touch-oriented person.
Or maybe it's because I'm a very curious type of person, and the knowledge that I should know what it's like to have a foreskin, but never will due to someone's deliberate action, aggravates me to extraordinary degrees.

One of the arguments that really makes me angry is the, "Well, they won't remember it," argument. I am very tempted to rebut it with, "Oh, okay. Well, if I ever feel the urge to torture someone, I'll stop by your house and slip you an anti-memory drug."
The knowledge that it was done to me--that I did experience that, even if I don't remember it--is plenty enough to justify being extremely angry.

I think my anger and sense of violation stems from all of these things, plus many others. It's just unfathomable to me how some guys just don't seem to mind that it was done to them.
And for me, that sense of personally being violated and robbed translates directly to anger and sorrow and a sense of helplessness when I hear that another infant is circumcised.
Also, for a long time now I have been unable to share in the joy of a baby boy being born unless I know for sure he stayed intact. The possibility that he might have been tortured and mutilated just rakes the inside of my head.

Ack... another soap box. I really ought to work on minimizing these. Or just make new threads...

[Jillie]

Just wanted to say, I also feel this way. Its almost painful to think about it sometimes. I'm in a high circ area, so when I look at the boys around me, chances are very good they are circed. I'm just sick now because sil is due in march and almost certinaly will circ, as she is a nurse (you know, knows everything). Thank God I can come here for sanity.

[Leiahs]

I don't have any great eloquence or words of wisdom, but yes, I feel the anger so strongly sometimes. Lately I feel very negative about many aspects of kids/children, but most especially about circ. In fact, my younger sister just called last night to say she was pregnant with her first, and you know what? I felt instantly sort of dreadful/depressed. I think she's far too young and naive to make good decisions about these things I've come to feel so passionate about. I will send her all the info I have, but I will also hope and pray she doesn't have a boy, because every time I hear of a boy about to be born, I fear the worst. And with at least one of my other sisters, my worst fear was realized.

I don't *want* these negative feelings and anger invading my life. Sometimes I have to stop thinking about it. But I can't really do that either, because every time I see my husband or my son, the issue is in my face.

I have decided that as much as possible, I should try and let go of my anger and replace it with sadness and disappointment. I read a book recently which talks about loving people...and well without getting too far off topic, I ended up feeling like while I don't believe people SHOULD have this choice available to them, they do for now, and they are allowed to make that choice. I have to leave it up to God to be the angry one, and the one who makes the judgement, and I can only press on and change what I myself have power to change. Not to say that I don't lose respect for people who make wrong decisions after I share with them....I do. But I try my best to pick an emotion other than anger, when I have the emotional power to do so. And if that means bawling my eyes out for the baby boy...... *sigh*

In the meantime, I'm happy to have broken the chain of violence in my own family, and I will do EVERYTHING in my power to make sure my children know what's right, and continue to share my knowledge with those around me.

[Amber Lion]

Originally Posted by Leiahs

I have decided that as much as possible, I should try and let go of my anger and replace it with sadness and disappointment. I read a book recently which talks about loving people...and well without getting too far off topic, I ended up feeling like while I don't believe people SHOULD have this choice available to them, they do for now, and they are allowed to make that choice. I have to leave it up to God to be the angry one, and the one who makes the judgement, and I can only press on and change what I myself have power to change. Not to say that I don't lose respect for people who make wrong decisions after I share with them....I do. But I try my best to pick an emotion other than anger, when I have the emotional power to do so. And if that means bawling my eyes out for the baby boy...... *sigh*

That was so moving for me to read this morning, exactly what I needed! I think this will be very important for me in getting past the anger; allowing myself to grieve for the baby boy and for the parents who made that choice without perpetuating the ANGER that is really NOT what I want or who I want to be. But I could grieve, and love, and I think that is better energy to be sending out than anger. Again, Thanks!

Also, Blarg - I'm not sure exactly how my dh feels about his own circ. He may be outraged, I don't know. I know that when he watched a video of circ he was emotionally effected for sometime and the first thing he said to me afterwards was "That is NOT happening to my sons!" His best friend is intact and expounds upon how circ "ruins sex" at any opportunity, so even before the video Dh was leaning towards the no circ side for that alone, but I don't think he had any real clue what circ actually WAS until he watched the video. I guess I've never really thought to talk to him about how he feels about the fact that he was circ'd - or how I would do that. Maybe I should? I don't want him to think I love his penis any less, or make him feel any worse about it than he might already feel, so I guess I've avoided the topic of HIS circ since he has never brought it up. But my ranting about the horrors of circ without acknowladging his circ or how he feels about it could have the effect I'm wishing to avoid? Maybe this is another thread? Does it already exist?