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marijuana and pregnancy - Page 6

post #101 of 124
just some more food for thought...

I can't seem to find one case of a human being dying from a marijuana overdose.
Wow! Not one! BUT how many people die from alcohol, other "legal" drugs like otc and prescription drugs, tobacco, illegal drugs (like meth, etc), or the crap that they call food (obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc.) by overdosing or overindulging to the point of addiction.

And yes it is interesting about the cannibinoid receptors in a woman's uterus. Makes we want to do some research. I knew that the brain has them.

It is a Personal Choice-definitely- one that should be legal for anyone to make! And with any choice should be well informed, not misled.
post #102 of 124
very well said goodearthmama!

when in July are you due???
post #103 of 124
I loved the evolution of this thread. Very enlightening and well spoken mamas.

We are not made to suffer. If a small dose of an non-harmful herb can help you feel better than blessed be.

I think controversy over inhaling is over taxed. When you smoke 1 cigs you take many many puffs. When you take a puff of mj you take 1 puff. Big difference. You could do deep breathing for the next 5 breaths to balance it out.

Love to post more but gotta run!
post #104 of 124
Heyitstwins - I'll just post them on this thread! If I'm going to type them all out I might as well do it here so more people can look for these resources All these books cite several studies and have much more information as well.

A great overall book about Hemp/Cannabis (it talks a lot about hemp seeds - their oil and nutrition - as well as the medicinal properties and effects of smoking the buds) is:

"Hemp For Health - The Medicinal and Nutritional Uses of Cannabis Sativa" by Chris Conrad

If you're more interested in the environmentally beneficial impacts that growing hemp would have on our society (and still learning a bit about smoking cannabis as well) then this book may be more up your alley:

"Hemp - Lifeline to the Future; The Unexpected Answer for Our Environmental and Economic Recovery" also by Chris Conrad

Both books are very well-referenced and informational!

One of my personal favourites is the book that I linked to earlier in the thread (at jackherer.com). It's cram packed with history, studies (like the ones on the page I linked to), old articles and newspaper clippings, and many many references. If you can only get one book, get this one!:

"The Emperor Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer

The next few books are older, but well worth the read:

"Marijuana Reconsidered" by Lester Grinspoon, MD - if you want to read about the issue from a doctor's perspective. This book was published in 1971.

"The Marijuana Smokers" by Erich Goode - this is the first book on cannabis that I ever bought. It is based on a survey of 200 cannabis users ranging from professionals, parents, straight-A college students, to high school dropouts and adult's who haven't made anything of themselves. Erich Goode is a sociologist so this is a slightly different perspective than the other books that I have. It is also very well referenced, and was published in 1970.

"The Marijuana Conviction - A History of Marijuana Prohibition in the United States" by Richard J. Bonnie and Charles H. Whitebread II - This book is part of The Lindesmith Center's drug library and was originally published in 1974. However, this is the definitive work on the history of cannabis prohibition. It ties everything together - including the role that the lifting of alcohol prohibition played in the prohibition of cannabis. An excellent, excellent read! This book explains WHY this is such a politically charged subject and why it is so entrenched in our culture that "weed is bad." This book is full of old newspaper cartoons and clippings from the years before and after prohibition started. Obviously this book only has the history through the early 70s, but that's plenty to start with, believe me!

I only have one book about psychoactive substances by Dr. Andrew Weil - "The Natural Mind" Though I hope to acquire "Chocolate to Morphine" sometime in the near future - I borrowed "Chocolate to Morphine" and it is THE book to get if you have pre-teens or teens and you want to educate them about drugs without fear tactics. We own many many many of his other health-related books though.

A little history of Dr. Weil that you probably never knew about:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2783.html
Quote:
Andrew Weil

Dr Andrew Weil is possibly the world's best-known naturopath. He is a Harvard Medical School graduate, also has a Harvard AB degree in biology, and is an internationally recognized expert on medicinal herbs, mind-body interactions, and alternative medicine. Dr Weil graced the cover of Time magazine in 1998, and is the author of eight books, including From Chocolate to Morphine, and the national bestseller Spontaneous Healing.

Weil is open about his past and present use of illegal substances, claiming "I think I've tried about every drug in Chocolate to Morphine." He is equally open with his views on ending the drug war and the benefits of many banned plants. Weil claims that there's an innate need for humans to alter consciousness, and that there is no such thing as good drugs and bad drugs, merely that some individuals have good or bad relationships with these substances.

Yet despite this, Weil's personal history with the drug culture is less well-known. Weil studied under Dr Timothy Leary at Harvard, and also worked with Dr Lester Grinspoon on marijuana research in the late 1960's.

Early in his career Weil wrote for High Times magazine, including articles like A gourmet coca taster's tour of Peru: Stalking an ancient herbal high.

Weil's first book was The Natural Mind, published in 1971. In it, he writes about the advantages of "stoned thinking" in understanding health and diagnosing illnesses.

Weil has even been honored with having a psychedelic mushroom named in his honor: Psilocybe weilii was discovered and named in 1995.
"Between Politics and Reason - the Drug Legalization Debate" by Erich Goode is a great book to read if you're interested in all the many different forms that legalization/decriminalization could take and the benefits and risks of each of them. This book is from the sociologist's perspective (written by Erich Goode - sociologist) and was published in 1997.

I have more books, but these are the best, IMO. You may have noticed that I mostly have older books... I'm a used-book collector at heart and I go for older or rare books first usually. I stay on top of the recent studies and findings by going to http://norml.org/

I hope that helps! I was a bit rushed typing this out... but I think I said everything I wanted to :

love and peace.
post #105 of 124

Thanks!

Wow trmpetplaya! Thanks for the information!

I am looking the books up right now. Thanks a lot!
post #106 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodearthmama View Post
I can't seem to find one case of a human being dying from a marijuana overdose.
The toxicity level for a human of average weight is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 pounds. POUNDS. So, yeah, you're not gonna see any fatal human marijuana overdoses, because it's physically impossible.
post #107 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
Thing is, it's fine (to me) if *you* choose to get high. But your child doesn't get to make that choice, you know?
EXACTLY, and to choose to do so is the most selfish thing I can possibly imagine.
post #108 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowerofnada View Post
EXACTLY, and to choose to do so is the most selfish thing I can possibly imagine.
So... do you abstain completely from ingesting caffeine while pregnant or breastfeeding? Caffeine is a more dangerous drug than cannabis is and it has less therapeutic value. And caffeine gets me, personally, as high as a kite with as little as one cup of coffee. What do you think a cup of coffee does to a tiny fetus? Do you consider getting an unborn child high on caffeine to be selfish as well? If not, then why not? It's not even used for medicinal purposes in most cases.

And it's definitely selfish to ingest cannabis during pregnancy - it would be much less selfish for some mamas to starve their unborn child

I seriously doubt MDC mamas are using cannabis with the intent to "get stoned" or "messed up" or for recreational purposes while pregnant. So choosing to use a medicinal drug during pregnancy is selfish? Huh. I guess taking those antibiotics that weren't tested on pregnant women while I was pregnant with dd was selfish of me just because I didn't want to die from a kidney infection... :

love and peace.
post #109 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowerofnada View Post
EXACTLY, and to choose to do so is the most selfish thing I can possibly imagine.
Julie don't forget that hyperemesis gravidarum poses pretty significant issues http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic479.htm. Many women end up taking medication to counter act it. The fetus doesn't choose to take medication either. I don't think there is an easy answer if one has HG.
post #110 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya View Post
And it's definitely selfish to ingest cannabis during pregnancy - it would be much less selfish for some mamas to starve their unborn child
I seriously doubt MDC mamas are using cannabis with the intent to "get stoned" or "messed up" or for recreational purposes while pregnant. So choosing to use a medicinal drug during pregnancy is selfish?

couldn't have said it better myself, leighty.
post #111 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmpetplaya View Post
I seriously doubt MDC mamas are using cannabis with the intent to "get stoned" or "messed up" or for recreational purposes while pregnant.
Do you really think that everybody that smokes pot does it medicinally?

For the sake of this discussion, I think we *have* been focusing on the medicinal aspects of cannabis, for the most part. But I'm going to take a wild stab and say that if you polled every single woman that ever smoked weed during her pregnancy, quite a few of them simply said "oh, what the hell" and took a toke when a joint got passed around.

The vast majority if marijuana smoking *is* recreational. For many people, smoking pot is fun, relaxing, improves their sex life, etc. I don't think we should overlook that fact, even though lots of people are pointing out other potential uses.
post #112 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
Do you really think that everybody that smokes pot does it medicinally?
Do you really think that those who do should be denied that right because of a social stigma? Just because some people will use it recreationally means nobody can use it? All sorts of legal drugs are abused every day. It's been said repeatedly on this thread that it's not about getting high or stoned. And even if some people use it recreationally, so? I just don't get the concern.

To everyone who says they won't take the risk, I keep wondering. . . what risk? I truly do not see any risk in the medicinal use of mj while pregnant. I challenge anyone to put together a list as comprehensive as trmpetplaya's with findings disputing hers - I don't think it can be done. Unless you trust the ones done by big pharma and the government.

Here is some info through the more pop culture channels:

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_madness

or this: http://en.wikipeia.org/wiki/Marijuana

And finally: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yj72e5q61Fs (not directly topically related, but very interesting)


trmpetplaya. . . let me bow to the greatness that is your knowledge on this subject! props to my sister
post #113 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
The vast majority if exercise *is* recreational. For many people, doing yoga is fun, relaxing, improves their sex life, etc. I don't think we should overlook that fact, even though lots of people are pointing out other potential uses.
I changed marijuana to exercise, and smoking pot to yoga. Read this way, it seems ridiculous. so because people are having fun and improving their sex lives, we should completely disregard the other potential uses? And what's so bad about relaxing and having fun and improving ones sex life?
post #114 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
Do you really think that everybody that smokes pot does it medicinally?
Nope, and when you put a ridiculous thought in my head (as opposed to words in my mouth) I would appreciate you quoting me wherever I've said it. If I haven't said it and it's a completely illogical, stupid thing to think, the odds are VERY unlikely that I've ever thought it.

I have even said numerous times on MDC that one of the main reasons that the US studies on cannabis in pregnancy are flawed is BECAUSE Americans mostly use cannabis recreationally and in conjunction with other drugs.

Moreover, I hardly see what your statement above has to do with my statement about MDC mamas. It's quite the non sequitor :

Quote:
For the sake of this discussion, I think we *have* been focusing on the medicinal aspects of cannabis, for the most part. But I'm going to take a wild stab and say that if you polled every single woman that ever smoked weed during her pregnancy, quite a few of them simply said "oh, what the hell" and took a toke when a joint got passed around.
Every single woman who has smoked weed during her pregnancy is not here on MDC (at least, I don't think they all are - that would be amazing if they were). So I still don't see what this has to do with my statement that you quoted.

Quote:
The vast majority if marijuana smoking *is* recreational. For many people, smoking pot is fun, relaxing, improves their sex life, etc. I don't think we should overlook that fact, even though lots of people are pointing out other potential uses.
Absolutely. I agree and have pointed this fact out numerous times as I stated above. However, certain types of people are more likely to overuse (or use for non-medicinal purposes) cannabis than others. The types of people who come to a Natural Family Living message board and learn about Natural Ways of Living and Attachment Parenting are not likely candidates to be smoking so much weed that they put their children or their children's health at risk. The women who come to this forum, I have found in general, are better educated than the population at large and care enough about their children and themselves to make Informed Decisions about their life.

Hence, my statement about how I (personally) doubt that MDC mamas are wanting to get "messed up" or "wasted" on drugs.

Can you provide proof of these excessively toking mamas you seem to think are on MDC? I haven't seen them around and I spent most of college around excessively toking individuals so I think I would be able to spot them if they were around.

Do YOU use caffeine or any other drugs during pregnancy? How do you view mamas who use non-medicinal (which is almost all caffeine use, btw, since it has less therapeutic value than cannabis does) caffeine during pregnancy? If you do use caffeine (or other legal drugs) during pregnancy or see it as acceptable then - How many of your views about drugs are shaped by the legality of the drugs in question and how many are shaped by the actual pharmacological effects of the drugs in question?

Have you actually looked into the effects of all the different drugs and how they work? It's a fascinating study and I highly recommend it

love and peace.
post #115 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
This is why I am not very comfortable with marijuana during pregnancy myself (and I did like to smoke from time to time). I think it's a fine thing to get yourself high, but I don't care to make that choice for somebody else (e.g. your unborn or nursing child).

And the pot that I generally smoked must have been pretty good stuff, or I didn't have a very good tolerance, b/c I only needed to take a hit or so and I was feeling quite stoned. So I personally couldn't take the "just enough to feel it but not enough to get high" approach.

So, none of the wacky weed for me at this time in life.
Self-disclosure here....empathy....respect......no derailing.
post #116 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowerofnada View Post
Self-disclosure here....empathy....respect......no derailing.
Well now, considering that's not the post I was responding too, that's a non sequitor as well. Posting non-sequitors tends to effectively derail threads You should know that well enough because that's what pro-vax people tend to do in the vaccination forum (or at least they used to, I haven't lurked there often lately). And both of you have done it on this thread thus far. And neither of you has deigned to answer my genuine question about why you're doing it. Huh. Very interesting...

love and peace.
post #117 of 124
Christ, now you BOTH derailed the thread.

Suffice it to say that the topic was pretty well exhausted before we all got sidetracked with calling each other selfish and petty and whatever else.

And, as is the fashion around here, let's talk hypothetically. If I hypothetically smoked marijuana while I was pregnant, I did it to combat stress, nausea, and joint pain. I wouldn't hypothetically regret it, and my hypothetical baby is hypothetically beautiful and healthy.

Hypothetically, of course.

'kay, back to the derailment ...
post #118 of 124
Well, if we're reccomending books, I suggest Women and Cannabis: Medicine, Science, and Sociology by Ethan Russo, Melanie, Ph.D. Dreber and Mary Lynn Matbre.

That said, vaporize if you're gonna do it.

Personally, I don't/won't, 'cause I don't honestly like it. But, assuming I had hyperemesis, it would certainly be worth a shot. Which is to say that I think it should be treated like any other herbal medication.
post #119 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by glendora View Post
Well, if we're reccomending books, I suggest Women and Cannabis: Medicine, Science, and Sociology by Ethan Russo, Melanie, Ph.D. Dreber and Mary Lynn Matbre.
Thank you for the book recommendations! I'm always looking for more to add to my library

love and peace.
post #120 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by glendora View Post
Personally, I don't/won't, 'cause I don't honestly like it. But, assuming I had hyperemesis, it would certainly be worth a shot. Which is to say that I think it should be treated like any other herbal medication.
I think that using mj medicinally and using it recreationally gives the user two totally different outcomes, if you will. So if you don't like it in a recreational sense, don't rule it out medicinally. glendora, I know *you* aren't doing this but I think it's a good point to make in general.

If you are extremely nauseous (did I spell that correctly?), and you have a hit or two, the main thing you will notice is how wonderful and normal you feel. And hungry. I've seen the miracle of this medicine for hyperemesis in person. It's a beautiful thing.

I've heard that zofran doesn't work, or at least not very well. I've also heard that insurance companies won't cover zofran when prescribed for hyperemesis because it is not the approved use. The pills are VERY expensive, too. It's not likely anyone will spend $150/pill on something that doesn't really work (not sure of this number, but IIRC it's b/w $100 and $200 a pill. I was shocked when I heard that!).

Which would (general) you choose?
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