We're having a boy

[nandodianenicole]

Sorry, this is long....
Hi there. I have been kinda lurking on this topic because it has always been of interest to me, even though I only have a girl. We just found out we are having a baby boy in March and are quite excited by it. Here's my story:
My husband is European born and was not circ'd. I thought this was great, in fact it was no big deal. He became "infected" about a year ago and I was disgusted when we went to see a urologist and as soon as he walked into the room said "so, we need a circumcision" I immediatly yelled out, no, we dont!!! Needless to say the dr did not like me too much. My dh and I went to see a naturopath, however, my dh was unwilling to change his diet (we were suspecting it was yeast driven) and the situation did not improve. Basically, his forskin up at top became very dry and would not retract without tearing and bleeding. It became quite painful, and he did not want to pursue other treatments, so he decided to get circumcised last Dec.
Anyway, during the circ the dr did admit to us that it is a painful needless surgery in newborns...score for me..... as my husband was saying his son shouldnt have to go through this at his age....: However, my dh is leaving it up to me. It was a video on this board that finally made him give up on the issue...the poor babe was screaming so loud and choking...my dh finally said, ok, you've convinced me....turn that screaming baby off! Score#2

Ok, so everyone I have spoken to has circd thier sons : My dh is only worried about later if the same thing happens (which doesnt concern me at all) but what I have been hearing is from coaches and men my age saying there was that 1 uncirc'd kid that was picked on in school during sports or gym....I would love your help in responses to this...what's the deal, has anyone experienced these remarks or actually been through this with uncirc'd sons or dh?

I am absolutely not circ'ing, so you dont have to convince me not to, just wondering what you smart women have been saying to this.

Thanks for reading!

[Cujobunny]

It's true in our generation that the majority of men in North America were circumcised. However this is a rapidly declining practice.

I don't know where you live but statistics for Canadian RIC in 2005 came out a little while ago and 90% of boys were left intact. FWIW all the little boys I know that were born within the past few years are intact.

I'm just not concerned about him being the only one. Also I will teach him to be confident about his body. His intact penis looks the way it's supposed to. The cut ones are wrong.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

For a few here I have heard them say that teasing happened but the person being teased handled it by saying things like Dude why are you looking at my penis or sorry they cut half yours off, and things like that. Crude yes but effective.

I do know that kids will latch onto anything out of the ordinary. But I honestly think that by the time your ds and mine is old enough to worry about the locker room there is a very good chance that at least half of the boys will be intact. I fervently : this is the case anyway.

I will teach my son to be proud of his body the way it is and that others will always find reasons to tease. Whether it be red hair or a big nose etc. Since here we do NOT have showers in the locker room were boys or girls see each other naked that wont be a issue. But I can see how using the bathroom might be. I will give him things to say in certain circumstances or let him make up his own.

I am proud of you for standing up for your son.

[njeb]

Oh, yes. The old locker room argument. The myth that refuses to die. :

For what it's worth, I have an intact ds, 19 years old, who graduated from high school a year ago. We live in an extremely high-circ. area (rural Iowa) and I asked him if he had ever been teased for being intact. He said no, that the boy doing the looking would be the one teased.

Do you, by any chance, live in the Midwest? We have the highest circ. rate in the nation, 80%. : The Northeast has a high rate, too, about 66%.

My deepest sympathies to you and your dh for the unnecessary loss of his foreskin. : Too bad he fell victim to our cut-happy culture. Chances are, if he'd seen a urologist in his native European country, he would have kept his foreskin.

[hakunangovi]

Diane, the teasing myth is just that. I spent my entire school career, all 12 years of it, in boys boarding schools with communal showers. About 1/3 were intact, 2/3 circumcised. I can not recall one instance of teasing based on circumcision status.
It is a terrible shame that your DH was convinced to give up his foreskin when there would have been other, less invasive treatments. His Dr was severely ignorant and uninformed.

[stever_45723]

Originally Posted by howard smith

Diane, the teasing myth is just that. I spent my entire school career, all 12 years of it, in boys boarding schools with communal showers. About 1/3 were intact, 2/3 circumcised. I can not recall one instance of teasing based on circumcision status.
It is a terrible shame that your DH was convinced to give up his foreskin when there would have been other, less invasive treatments. His Dr was severely ignorant and uninformed.

The reason why there was never any teasing in this case, Howard, is because of the relative numbers of the two groups. The key is that there have to be enough guys in whichever group is the minority for the guys in the locker room to be able to see other guys of the same sort in nmumbers that make it seem normal, whatever that means. THat is a very different thing from being th eo nly uncircumcised guy or one of two uncircumcised guys in the locker room, which can be very lonesome. My experience was actually much like yours. I went to a high school that was 2/3 uncircumcised and 1/3 circumcised. Circ status was never an issue.
That said, whenever there is a small minority, that minority may get teased because of its minority status. I think parents need to be proactive and make a kid feel good about being intact so that if the teasing ever happens (which it does in a considerable number of cases) the kid has a positive enough image of himself that the teasing does not become a devastating episode.

[eepster]

In my expierience who gets teased and who doesn't often has more to do with the kind of image a person projects than any actual physical traits. In the case of my husband and his brother: one is intact but has this don't mess with me socially out going feel to him; the other is circ'd but is more quiet, vulnerable and introverted. No one ever teased the intact one about his penis, but they found things to tease the circ'd one about it just didn't happen to be his penis.

Possibly the locker room story always goes "there was one guy who was intact" not b/c there was literally 1 guy but b/c of the 3 or 4 guys who were intact he was the one who was easy to pick on.

[ShaggyDaddy]

I always like to share my teasing story. In Jr High I had a jewish friend and some guys were making fun of him because he "had part of his d*ck cut off". I said they probably didn't understand what that meant and that I was circumcised and they were probably too (white upper middle class Texas School). They never made fun of him about it again because they probably asked their parents

If I had known anything about circumcision other than "almost everybody does it not just jewish people" I could have spun it a lot better, but hey I didn't know any better back then (didn't even consider it a bad thing).

Basically what I am saying is that kids will tease about anything (even if they are unfounded and wrong). Preventing teasing is one of the most hopeless things you could ever endeavor to do for your child. Plastic surgery isn't going to change that. The only thing that can help with teasing is teaching your child to be emotionally strong.

[dnr3301]

My brother (intact) was a jock in high school. I asked him about this once, and he said, "two things: one, the kid looking is going to get more crap for looking than anyone would get for not being circumcised, and two, you'd be surprised how many of us there are, I was not the only kid intact." he was born in 1977 in Minnesota, not exactly a hotbed of intactivism, but my mom knew she wasn't cutting him.

[melanie83103]

I just wanted to say - don't worry too much about the infection issue. My father, my brother-in-law, my 3 nephews, and my son are all intact, and not one of them has had a single problem down there.

I was just discussing the "locker room teasing" issue with my brother (who is cut, but father of an intact boy), and he laughed and said that if a guy looks at another guys parts in the locker room, he is going to get punched! Guys are very funny about looking at each other, and I really don't think they will be comparing penises in the locker room.

By the way, congrats on your baby boy! You and I have almost the same due date (I'm due 3/5). I'm having a girl this time

Melanie

[kldliam]

my plan

sorry I didn't have time to read your whole thread. Sorry if I am giving repeat advice here. 1st: Congrats that you're pregnant again! How lovely that you will be having a son.

As far as what to say to my son to arm him for any potential peer ridicule (which comes in many forms by the way) about his intact status it will be this:

1. I am really sorry that your parents felt that you needed to be modified after birth, I didn't have any birth defects when i was born. My parents thought I was perfect just the way I arrived!

2. Dude, why is my "unit" of so much interst to you anyway?

The first one may seem harsh but he will be prepared for any crap that he gets. In addition to this, I feel that if you educate your son well about how lucky he is to have all of his 'God-given' equipment, and to pity the children who were mutilated at birth, it will go along way to helping him feel comfortable in the face of potential penis ridicule. Good Luck to you and your family!

[nandodianenicole]

Great Responses

Thank you so much for all of your responses, I feel a lot better about it now. I especially liked hearing from the men on this forum.
I live in CT. I find most of the people I ask have circ'd thier kids, except for the immigrant (foreign) population. I recall my BIL's reaction to my dh's circ--it was something like "what are you going to do that for?" He is Mexican. I hope they have some boys--they are very anti-circ.

Thanks again.

[Blarg]

First of all, being made fun of is an issue of social standing and status:
An intact jock is never going to be made fun of for anything, much less his penis.
The little, scrawny/fat kid with hygiene problems and a speech impediment who doesn't have friends is the one that's going to be made fun of. And for a lot more than his penis.
What this means is that if even just one popular guy in that locker room also had an intact penis, the unpopular one would never be made fun of for it, because that would implicitly be making fun of the popular guy. Guys are very aware of this sort of thing.

Second, the newborn circumcision rate in the USA is now around 60% (maybe lower, now?). So a good deal of the popular guys in this coming generation will be intact as well. That means it won't be something that's okay to make fun of.

Even with circ rates varying from area to area, I suspect it's very likely that there will be popular intact guys even in high-circ areas.

[almasmom]

I hope that we can raise our boys not to make fun of ANY penises, natural or cut. Man, if I were mutilated, I would PRAY no one would notice, let alone mock me.

[buckeyedoc]

I also figure that even where I live in Ohio (where the local circ rate is something like 78%), my boys are not likely the be the ONLY kids in the class (or on a team) who are not circumcised.

My hubby (circ'd in early 1970s) said that he would not have noticed anyone's circ status when he played sports all through school, nor would it have bothered him to have been uncircumcised in the midst of all the circumcised boys. He said there was very little "checking out" of other guys' goods.

[Julymommy]

About the locker room effect

My two younger brothers are un cut. One isn't into sports, but had three cousins with circd penises (males on moms side aren't except for these cousins). Anyways, he was kind of a butt and was always teasing them for looking wierd! My bro even told them there mom let a doc slice off their penis (he was about 8 at the time) and got in big trouble from my aunt.

As for my other bro, he plays sports, but has NEVER had issues with being teased. My step mom would probably have a chat with the coach if he was. It seems to me that guys will pick on other guys for anything, and raising a son with enough self confidence and wit to hold his own seems smarter!

The one guy I dated who was intact had NO PROBLEMS with girlfriedns. And he was so clean. We actually teased him about his cleanliness.

[FreeThinkinMama]

First of all good for you for standing your ground! My dh is circ'd, was at birth back when they actually required mothers to do it before they could bring their babies home from the hospital (eek!) so it wasn't a choice back then.

We're also having a boy this January and have a little girl. When I was pg with her I started researching circumcision and decided it was a barbaric, medically unnecessesary procedure when used routinely on newborns. Sure there are cases like your husband where later on they have problems but they're a small percentage.

My husband's main concern is cosmetic. He's afraid our son will be teased in the locker room or rejected by girls when he grows up. Someone gave me a great rebuttal for that once, boys usually know better than to look, let alone comment on another boy's genitals in a locker room (for fear of being called gay) so that's unlikely. We're planning on homeschooling anyway to avoid the bullying/teasing that is common in that age group among other reasons. I also told him if a girl rejects our son based on anything superficial like that, she wasn't the right person for him anyway.

I've been working on him for several years and he's coming around. I've asked him to research it himself, bring me studies that show it's beneficial to do it routinely. I've pointed out that they don't use anethesia usually and how would he like to have a part of his body cut off without pain meds? At this point he's almost on board with me. Either way, even if I couldn't convince him I wouldn't have it done and I let him know that. I wouldn't give our daughter a nose job or have her tonsils removed at birth "just in case" or because our social circle thinks it looks better. Like you, everyone we know is circumcised. But like I pointed out to my husbands, what with the new studies we have and parents educating themselves, the APA no longer recommending it routinely, and insurances refusing to cover it, the rates are dropping and in another 20 years it won't be uncommon at all to be uncut. Heck in another 50 years it might be the other way around!

Hope that helps give you some assistance in convincing your husband. I would also remind him that at least he had anethesia during the procedure and he was old enough to know what was going on, why it was being done and to sign the consent forms. Babies don't have a choice in the matter.

[carolhagan]

Originally Posted by FreeThinkinMama

My husband's main concern is cosmetic. He's afraid our son will be teased in the locker room or rejected by girls when he grows up. Someone gave me a great rebuttal for that once, boys usually know better than to look, let alone comment on another boy's genitals in a locker room (for fear of being called gay) so that's unlikely. We're planning on homeschooling anyway to avoid the bullying/teasing that is common in that age group among other reasons. I also told him if a girl rejects our son based on anything superficial like that, she wasn't the right person for him anyway.

This is interesting.. one of my first sexual encounters was with an intact guy. It was in the US, in NY where I am sure the circ rate was pretty high then. When I first saw his penis I thought it looked different, but wasn't sure why. I didn't really know the difference between a circ'ed guy and a intact guy. Then one time while we were "playing" I just had an ephipany, and said "oh, your not circumsised" haha.. He was like "Yeah, i have all my penis" (okay, he didn't say penis) but.. anyway, it took me some time to even realize he was intact. Afterwards I talked to some of my female friends who were actually more interested than disguisted.

My point is (yes, there is a point) I don't think girls really care. At least I didn't nor did any of my college friends. I have a feeling that by the time my sons are having sex it will be pretty common to have seen an intact man, and it won't be a big deal at all.

[JuJuBees]

Originally Posted by carolhagan

My point is (yes, there is a point) I don't think girls really care. At least I didn't nor did any of my college friends. I have a feeling that by the time my sons are having sex it will be pretty common to have seen an intact man, and it won't be a big deal at all.

really? you were okay with it? you didn't think it was weird or gross? i worry about this as well. i guess it doesn't really matter because if a girl likes him she should like him regardless of his penis, but it is something i wonder about.

[Plaid Leopard]

Originally Posted by JuJuBees

really? you were okay with it? you didn't think it was weird or gross? i worry about this as well. i guess it doesn't really matter because if a girl likes him she should like him regardless of his penis, but it is something i wonder about.

When I was younger I thought foreskins were "weird and gross" before I had ever seen one, just because I had always heard they were "weird and gross". Then when I actually came in contact with an intact penis, I realized how normal it was. Not a problem. Now I am married to an intact European guy and our kids are intact.