Ideal Public School... - Page 2

[paula_bear]

Lots of stimulating discussion happenin' here. In another thread about our "ideal school," I mentioned that this is what I envision for my 8 y/o DS: A community-based learning program (no structural school buildings) where DS would wander around the town (hard to imagine these days, but it's still my dream...) learning from the residents by watching them work, helping them out, asking questions, etc.

He has been friendly and a born-extrovert since infancy. I would "supplement" his real-life learning experiences by providing assistance in helping him to gather info about areas of interest until his curiousity was satisfied. He would definitely "run the show."

As far as learning "the basics," I think that would be a natural consequence / progression of this type of education. For instance, there are various opportunities to learn maths in everyday life - making change, planning a budget, cooking, telling time, etc. We would also take many field trips to museums and the like, according to what DS felt interested in at the time. And of course we would persue the Arts according to his interests as well.

[SIGH] This is MY dream, don't know how I could make it a reality. I need to find a 50's-style hometown, I suppose, where I could actually get to know and trust my neighbors!

[paula_bear]

P.S. We plan on giving homeschooling a shot over the summer and possibly leaving PS altogether. I really feel that, despite wonderful teachers (with whom we've been blessed), my DS is not getting his learning needs meet within the PS system. Currently there are only 18 children in his class, not too bad, but I still feel that he isn't getting the specific attention he needs. Or perhaps a more accurate statement would be that his learning style needs are not fulfilled. It also seems that his "behavior problems" coincide with when he began formal schooling. I really feel that his creativity has been stifled, his curiousity has not been nourished or even encouraged, and all around it has had a negative effect on him. Hopefully we can fix the damage and move forward!

[EFmom]

Our public school system is pretty good, and my complaints about it are minor. We moved to the district on purpose. They do squander taxpayer money on the DARE program, which I would abolish. They also only offer half day kindergarten, which I think is wrong.

DH is a high school teacher in a different district, which is not so good. Two of my sisters are also teachers.

So much of what the schools get blamed for is a reflection of society in general. The schools have had to assume roles that they are not designed for, like social services agency, medical provider, parole enforcement and the like. I'm politically liberal, but this is one area where I get somewhat conservative, and I realize I'll probably get flamed for this.

I would give teachers the genuine power to have kids with a history of disruptive behavior taken out of the classroom and sent to alternative schools. DH spends way, way, way too much of his time dealing with the handfull of kids who do not want to get an education, whose parents don't care if they get an education, and whose sole goal seems to be to prevent the kids who do want to learn from getting an education. These kids are robbing their peers of opportunity, and they should be sent elsewhere. It would make a huge difference to the remaining 95% of the students.

I think President Bush's so called "higher standards" are extraordinarily destructive to public schools. DH is dealing with that, too. What they really mean by "higher standards" are lower standards for the more academically oriented students. Yeah, everybody has to pass tests, but the tests are much watered down from what they used to be. For some of the less academically oriented students, they are facing mounting frustration and some are getting violent, while others who might have passed under the older system are tuning out altogether because they know they'll never pass the new exams. Plus, the teachers are forced to spend all of their class time preparing for the tests.

[lauren]

I would agree EF Mom, that schools have had to take on way more than they were originally supposed to, in terms of providing for kids-- in some areas they also have to be police as well as social service, medical, etc. And I think that disruptive kids are very hard to deal with in the regular classroom. I disagree that the individual kids are being disruptive on purpose (at least at the elementary level). Most kids who are underachieving and/or disruptive are dealing with a history of poor attachment to start with, domestic violence, trauma, multiple caregivers, parental drug abuse, etc., etc., etc. So, they are "reacting", out of the part of their brain invested in survival. Learning is not their top priority, because they don't have safety, perhaps food, and other basics. Yes, it is a burden to the teacher. Schools need to be able to meet some of these needs, and for some, an alternative program seems to work, for others a school-based counselor/clinician. It is becoming more and more of a problem.

There is tons of research on kids coming to kindergarten not ready to learn--socially, emotionally and academically. Family support programs have been demonstrated to change this. But they are always underfunded. If our country was truly serious about school readiness, there would be fundamental changes in how young families are supported, starting at birth. Those are my 2 cents!

[Alexander]

Originally posted by EFmom



I would give teachers the genuine power to have kids with a history of disruptive behavior taken out of the classroom and sent to alternative schools.

Do you mean:

a) different schools that they are going to,

b) a "special school" for this type of child

c) or do you mean a type of school that is not the norm for PS, such as a "free school", "democratic school", "charter school" etc.

Just wondering about this.

a

[sleepies]

i dont have any issues with the way they are...

at least in my district.
i know there are HORRIBLE districts out there.

best advice, is to move to a better school district, if you do not like yours.

i guess, if i could change something, I would NOT make junior high and highschool age "kids" take PE. I think Physical Education should be optional.

for me there was nothing worse than going through puberty in the shower room

[indiegirl]

I'm a public school drama teacher.

When I was a kid I made mental notes as to what I hated about schools so that if I ever became a teacher, I could change things.

Here is what I came up with:

1. Kids are people and shouldn't be treated stupid.
2. When I was expected to do well, I did.
3. Busy-work pissed me off. Dittos taught me nothing.
4. When you experience, you learn. I tuned out of lectures within 5 minutes, but when I had hands-on activities that required thought, I excelled.

As a teacher, I see the need to balance curriculum/high standards with things that are enjoyable/challenging. I think I do a pretty darn good job of respecting my students but often have to reiterate the need for them to respect me (ie talking when I am talking). People talking when I am talking wouldn't be a big deal if they were only hurting themselves--but in my experience, the ones who talk affect everyone else with their chatter. And then about fifty million kids come up to me and ask the SAME QUESTIONS, questions I had just answered.

I've solved this by only teaching things once. If they don't get it, they need to ask their classmates. Of course I'll clarify, but I refuse to enable that kind of disrespect. BTW, it's working beautifully.

My assignments are thoughtfully designed, but not concrete. My students' needs and desires always shape what we are doing and none of my semesters have been the same. I don't hand out busy-work and I expect excellence. I don't always get it, but I mostly do!

Talking about grand public-school change, my ideas for improvement are these: teachers should be trained according the the most progressive models for education. Cross-curricular assignments/lessons, hands-on learning when ever possible, reasonable class sizes (ideally, no more than 20 students) and the money to have resources....I have no computer and hardly a budget for my curriculum. I use my home computer for grading and lesson planning--and I spend about 20 hrs a week extra doing so. I don't get paid for this extra time....

As far as compensation goes, if you want qualified teachers who care about their job and are excited to teach, you have to make it worthwhile to do so. I have a Master's degree and make 20K a year less than my counterparts in other areas of the USA. I'm sure there are folks who make less than me. Honestly, I don't know of a profession where a Master's degree earns so little money. People bitch about schools but aren't willing to pay teachers a living wage.

I am worth a living wage. My students will tell you that my classes have changed their lives---and there are others like me. I live paycheck to paycheck and don't know how much longer I can afford to teach...

[journeymom]

Hello, I've been lurking for a while. What an interesting discussion!

Indiegirl, you sound like a very thoughtful person and an excellent teacher! If it's any consolation, teacher pay is always a priority with me! My parents both were high school teachers...

My ideal school... it would have a learning specialist to help the teachers individualize lessons for their students. Kids learn in lots of different ways, at different times in their life.

I would love to make it so a teacher never ever comes to the conclusion that "Johnny is just lazy and if he'd just apply himself, he'd be getting straight A's". No, Johnny has a serious attention problem, or a serious memory problem (or whatever else), and if he could get his brain to work right he'd like nothing more than to cooperate in class. I don't think children enjoy being disruptive, at least not the little kids.

EFmom, I appreciate what you say about getting the disruptive kids out of the class. I agree, teachers shouldn't have to deal with that sort of behavior. This is the primary reason we signed our daughter up for a private school. I want her to go to a school where the parents, presumably, care about their child's education as much as I do. (We eventually couldn't afford it. Oh well. Her pub school is not bad.)

That's why I'd want to catch them before they get buried in problems.

I was recently diagnosed with ADD, so I've got THAT on my mind. And I'm reading a very interesting book, "A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine,m.d. He wants schools to put less emphasis on negative labels like ADD and concentrate on helping kids learn how to use their own unique minds to their best ability. I haven't finished the bood, but so far it sounds wonderful, ideal and very expensive, probably impossible to implement across the nation.

It might be someone here at Mothering that mentioned his website, www.allkindsofminds.org. He's a very nice pediatrician who really seems to know how children learn.

Anyway, that's my agenda!