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Regular milk or organic ultra pasturized milk

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
These are my choices at the local stores. Which should I choose? My mom said we should not do ultra pasturized but she did not know why. Anyone know?

Thanks,
Allison
post #2 of 49
Regular as in just plain store brand milk? If so, I would go with organic. The "regular" milk would most likely be pasturized too.
post #3 of 49
i would pick the non-organic pasturized. i hear ultra pasturized tends to taste burned, and it has been heated to such a high temp, you might as well not drink it at all.
post #4 of 49
Ultra-pasteurized just means that the milk has been treated at high temperatures for a very short period of time; I think it's close to 300°F for 1-3 seconds. This allows more bacteria in the milk to be killed off and give it a longer shelf life. It may have a slightly more burnt or caramelized taste to due the denaturation of the milk proteins (heating meat or eggs is also a form of protein denaturation). "Regular" pasteurization is typically a little above 161°F for a little more than 15 seconds. There is some loss of nutritional value with any type of heat treatment and there is also a time/temperature relationship so I don't think there is a big difference in nutritional quality between regular and ultra- pasterurized milk. The decrease in nutritional quality is pretty minimal. I know there is a lot of argument about what heat treatment does to milk vs drinking raw milk but heating is a pretty basic and natural treatment. Heat treatment does denature enzymes like lipase that can destroy the quality of the milk (by attacking the fat).

Personally, we don't rely on milk as our primary nutrition source. We buy the organic ultra-pasteurized b/c I am more worried about hormones in the milk.
post #5 of 49
Neither. I don't buy my milk from the store anymore. I buy it straight from my farmer. The ultra pasteurized organic milk needs no refridgeration. They only put it in the refridgerated section so you'll buy it. Check out www.realmilk.com to see if there are any real milk sources near you.

Kim
post #6 of 49
Thread Starter 
We are on WIC so I have to buy it at a store. Would be great if farms could take WIC though. And by regular I meant non organic store milk. Yes the reg milk is pasturized too but not ultra pasturized. So other than hormones I am wondering what this "ultra" pasturization (is that a word?) has done to the milk.
post #7 of 49
AllisonK, here's a link that might help: http://www.westonaprice.org/transition/dairy.html

If you look at the bottom, you'll see them address the ultrapasteurization and homogenization issues.

I wish I could do raw milk, but it's illegal in my state and I just can't drive hours to the next one. I've decided to give up on milk for now, and just have raw milk cheese and pasteurized, non-homogenized yogurt. For some reason, raw milk cheese is legal.

But when I was drinking milk, I had a very difficult time sorting everything out. I thought heating was no big deal. I just thought the issue was about killing off the good bacteria, which is true. But ultrapasteurization warps the proteins in milk, which the article doesn't even address. Also homongenization is evil. It renders the good fats in milk harmful. They break it up into a form that ends up clogging the arteries. So in my opinion, homogenized milk is not even good for kids (I do believe in saturated fats for kids, so that's not the issue).

Does whole foods accept wic? They have a pasteurized, non-homogenized brand that is $7 a gallon. Not cheap, but I wouldn't pay for regular milk or even ultrapasteurized organic milk even if it was dirt cheap. I would just avoid it altogether if it's ultrapasteurized and homogenized.

I'm a moderate type of person. I buy non-organic if the organic sort is too expensive or not available, so I don't think I'm excessively purist. But I truly think milk as it is being rendered today is bad news.
post #8 of 49
Wow - some of the things is that article is so blatantly false. I work in the food industry and have worked with pasteurizing and homogenizing equipment. Ultra-pasteurization is shorter times; not longer. If it were longer, no one would do it because it wouldn't be cost effective. If you are worried about what homogenization does to milk fat than you better stay away from all salad dressings and most drinks other than water and alcohol. They are all homogenized.

I hate to say it but those references look made up. EIther that or they are referenced so poorly no one could locate the articles which don't even seem to address the issues of homogenization or pasteurization anyway. For example Nutrition News and Views was put out by Mississippi State U and was published weekly, not bimonthly as referenced in the article.

Homogenization linked to heart disease? Come on!!! First of all, it's not referenced. Animal fat in general is linked to heart disease (saturated fat!!). Homogenization has nothing to do with it.

Milk producers don't care if you know their milk is ultra-pasteurized. All references to pasteurization are written in small letters. There is nothing secretive about ultra-pasteurization as that article will have you believe.

Quite frankly, proteins in the milk are going to be denatured before you digest them. It can happen via heating (pasteurization) or it can happen if your stomach (via stomach acids).

Honestly - I am often very skeptical about our food supply since I work in the industry. My dd's teachers at school laugh at me b/c I am so picky about what she eats. : That article is a bit over the top though with unsubstantiated claims. For the record. I cut all the milk my dd drinks with rice milk. I totally support people's dairy choices or avoidances b/c I think you can do with or without milk but just know that articles like that are a bit embellished.
post #9 of 49
I choose organic. The stuff in non-organic milk is WAY scarier to me than what heat can do.

-Angela
post #10 of 49
I buy organic from localy owned cows
post #11 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlm194 View Post

Personally, we don't rely on milk as our primary nutrition source. We buy the organic ultra-pasteurized b/c I am more worried about hormones in the milk.
Exactly that. We've cut way down on milk consumption but dd likes some in her cereal and I like a small glass every now and then. I do go ahead and buy the organic ultra pasteurized because I am hoping it really doesn't have all those hormones, kwim?
post #12 of 49
dlm194, I am not an expert on food, so I must rely on experts such as yourself. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge given your profession, but in my research, I have seen many links between homogenized milk with heart disease. I'm not sure what you mean by avoiding salad dressing. I think the homogenization process in milk is peculiar to milk alone. But maybe you know something I don't. We all know what the establishment says about saturated fats. They do acknowledge that and still persisit in their belief that saturated fats are not the culprit. They provide a wealth of research. However, below I only include articles linking homogenization with heart disease. Here are a few such links. Perhaps you could address them.

http://www.realmilk.com/homogenization.html

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/view...19936&id=18866

http://www.wellbeingjournal.com/homogenized.htm

http://www.healthy-living.org/html/heart_disease.html

As for ultrapasteurization, I found a link on the WAP site that I include below, and one from Mercola relating ultrapasteurization as unhealthful. But they are the usual suspects. WAP foundation usually has good science and take particular pride in their independence of research. I don't necessarily believe that because the mainstream food scientists draw different conclusions that the WAP is wrong. But that's a whole other story. I have also gotten a lot of my info. from hearsay from other holistic moms for what that's worth.

http://www.westonaprice.org/motherli...rizedmilk.html
post #13 of 49
If you are unable to get raw milk, buying whole organic pasteurized milk would still be better than regular nonorganic milk.

For a lot of us, buying raw milk is "illegal." We get by it by buying a share of a cow or buying from somebody as "pet food."

I never thought about the homogenization issue with salad dressing, but then again we make our own salad dressings.
post #14 of 49
Could you try a different store? Or talk to the store you do go to getting a different brand of organic milk?
post #15 of 49
When we were on WIC I had a df child and I was nursing df! I had so much stupid milk I didn't use. I gave it to my ILS who lived with us. No milk is better than any pasturized milk product. Pasturized milk will kill a baby cow -- now, why would I want to consume that or let my child consume it?

If those are the only 2 choices, neither. Milk isn't all it's cracked up to be and the only reason why it is so pushed is b/c if not nursing oz per oz it packs the most fat and calories for toddlers. Docs think toddlers can't learn to eat enough, balance nutrition or something -- look at all the toddler nutritional drinks and snacks now a days???:

If you must have milk for some reason and can't afford raw dairy, choose rice or almond. When we were not consuming dairy 1 little carton of rice would last a month on just cereal or in the occassional baked item.

Mary Lou Henner was my no dairy support. Then I started reading about real milk, raw dairy. Since my dh likes milk and so does my ds1, I decided I would prefer to give them raw dairy than store processed pasturized poison. After over a year with raw dairy coming into the house, I have just now started to put some on my cereal, when I eat cereal (which is rare).
post #16 of 49
WIC here won't let me get organic milk at all. I've been getting the conventional regular pasturized milk, but selected a brand that didn't add hormones to the milk.

Now that DS is "graduating" from WIC, I'm going to have to figure out what kind of milk I should be buying.
post #17 of 49
Mommay ~ The fundamental problem with the information presented in those articles is that's pretty much all speculation. That doesn't mean it's false!!! However, if you look at things logically, just shaking milk is homogenization. I'm not sure how those who raw milk actually consume it but if you shake the milk to blend the fat and skim portions, then you have homogenized. You just haven't broken the fat globules to particles that are as small as when you use an industrial homogenizer.

The fact is that ALL food is chemicals. Anytime you process food you will change its chemical properties. By "process" I mean even something as simple as mixing. Mixing will reduce particle size, mixing will denature proteins, etc (mixing cause protein denaturation which allows us to "whip" cream. Steaming vegetables destroys enzymes. Even time changes the chemical properties of foods.

One of the big reasons I don't go along with those articles is that they keep pointing out that homogenization began in the 30s and heart disease started becoming a much bigger issue after that. Well, right around that time other big changes happened in our society - most notably, the booming business of process foods! Why blame homogenized milk when so many other changes in our diet were taking place? If you use the "timing" logic then you better vaccinate your kids because after vaccines, many diseases sharply decreased. Of course many diseases were decreasing at the same time the vaccines were being introduced....

Personally, I think a lot of heart disease today (and this is total opinion here! ) came due to the introduction of formula. One key ingredient that formula is missing is cholesterol. Breastmilk has cholesterol. I kind of think that our bodies better learn how to process cholesterol when properly exposed to it when young. Again, that's total speculation and opinion on my part but it makes sense to me!

If homogenization is really a concern, you could simply use skim milk as much as possible. Technically skim milk can contain up to almost 0.5g fat so it is still homogenized but if there is little fat in there, then there is a lesser chance of ingesting the XO that those articles are concerned about.

I just want to reiterate that I am not criticizing anyone's choice of milk at all (or trying to say that people should drink homogenized milk)!!! I just don't personally think it matters whether it's homogenized or not.
post #18 of 49
Don't drink milk then.
Seriously, we only use milk (organic, because I think hormones and pesticides are way worse than pasteurization) for cereal and DH uses it for coffees. I can totally do without it, I buy it for DH and SS. I doubt I will introduce it to my DS. I don't see a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electra375 View Post
Pasturized milk will kill a baby cow -- now, why would I want to consume that or let my child consume it?
This makes my point. Why would you want to consume a living milk that is NOT designed for you, but for baby cows?

Anyway, just my two cents.
post #19 of 49
I would drink the UHT organic first because with organic cows are required access to grass. How much grass is the question, but knowing nothing else, that's what I'd go with.

I've looked for studies on vitamin loss in ultra pasteurized milk and haven't found evidence that it is as dire as some of the WAPF literature claims. But there is not a whole lot of research on the topic to begin with. I have no idea about the effect of homogenization but would still choose a milk that isn't homogenized just in case. How's that for research?

And as a sidenote, my son's godfather's father developed the homogenization process for a big Michigan dairy back in the 1920s. Oh, the name of the company escapes me. Anyway, it was a process that was more simplified than the previous and allowed homogenization to happen on a mass scale. Their reason was concern about rickets and vitamin D -- parents skimmed the fat off the top for their coffee and the children got rickets from a vitamin D deficiency. Homogenization helped with the deficiency problem and, of course, at some point they started adding vitamin D to the milk, probably as grain feeding of cows became universal.
post #20 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale Force View Post
I have no idea about the effect of homogenization but would still choose a milk that isn't homogenized just in case. How's that for research?
That works for me a lot of the times.

That's really interesting about your son's godfather's father. He probably didn't know the huge impact he would make!

dlm194, I think that the fact that the fat is broken down to such small portions is the issue. I think the whole fat globule is healthful, but the broken down ones just end up clogging your arteries. But I am not a food expert as I said, so I won't attempt to argue a technical point. But there has to be a huge difference between just shaking the milk and the homogenization porcess precisely because the latter causes fat to never separate.

I won't get into the whole WAP if you're not aware of it, but if you acknowledge cholesterol as essential to health (as WAP does), then perhaps you'd be sympathetic to the idea that so is saturated fats. They show in numerous studies how these fats are villainized, as cholesterol is, for bad reasons.

That's also a reason why skim milk would not be a good idea. The healthful part of milk is the fat. If you notice, that's why skim milk always have added A and D (these are in the fat). Usually these added vitamins are synthetic forms that don't even get utilized very well. Gale Force points out that drinking milk without the fat has caused rickets in children in the past.
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