Misogyny and birth - Page 6

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by josybear

here's a great ob quote (from that ob board, i'm having fun being p'd off at them right now.
"Just an observation, we are talking about Home Deliveries.

And, as you know, in my opinion those are for Pizzas only. "

You know, this made me : when I first read it, but now that I've read the "delivery" thread, I actually agree with this statement. Only it's incomplete, the full quote should be:

Just an observation, we are talking about Home Deliveries.
And, as you know, in my opinion those are for Pizzas only,
Babies should arrive at home via BIRTH.

[^guest^]

I couldn't read this thread and not reply. *hugs* and <3 for all of you who have suffered at the hands of misogyny.

Please don't discount your experiences as "not that bad". Some people may have more horrifying experiences than others, but any kind of behavior that degrades, physically or emotionally abuses, or purposely dismisses the legitimate concerns of an pregnant/laboring/post-partum mother, is still intolerable and unacceptable.

I think a lot of this behavior is allowed to continue because many woman are told it's "not that bad". They end up believing it, and don't even realize they have suffered abuse. They feel awful about it, harbor deep emotional scars over it, but feel completely incapable of expressing it or healing it, because to be so traumatized over something considered so status quo, they must be over-emotional, hormonal, or any other demoralizing adjective assigned to disenfranchised women, deprived of their human right to a natural, normal, happy, harmonious pregnancy and birth.

*climbs off the soapbox* sorry about that. Once I get going it's hard to stop

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by Neoma

I couldn't read this thread and not reply. *hugs* and <3 for all of you who have suffered at the hands of misogyny.

Please don't discount your experiences as "not that bad". Some people may have more horrifying experiences than others, but any kind of behavior that degrades, physically or emotionally abuses, or purposely dismisses the legitimate concerns of an pregnant/laboring/post-partum mother, is still intolerable and unacceptable.

I think a lot of this behavior is allowed to continue because many woman are told it's "not that bad". They end up believing it, and don't even realize they have suffered abuse. They feel awful about it, harbor deep emotional scars over it, but feel completely incapable of expressing it or healing it, because to be so traumatized over something considered so status quo, they must be over-emotional, hormonal, or any other demoralizing adjective assigned to disenfranchised women, deprived of their human right to a natural, normal, happy, harmonious pregnancy and birth.

*climbs off the soapbox* sorry about that. Once I get going it's hard to stop

Thank you for saying that.
And it is so true. It took a long time for me to realize exactly how wrong it all was. I was told to just be happy I had a healthy baby. But the pain did not go away.

It makes me so sad to see so many other women being treated this way at a time that should be sacred. It is truly shameful.

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by Neoma

Please don't discount your experiences as "not that bad". Some people may have more horrifying experiences than others, but any kind of behavior that degrades, physically or emotionally abuses, or purposely dismisses the legitimate concerns of an pregnant/laboring/post-partum mother, is still intolerable and unacceptable.

Ah, yes, the "at least you have a healthy baby" approach...if that ain't misogyny, I don't know what is. Remember, YOUR experience doesn't count at all...only the baby matters. :

[minkajane]

OMG, I HATE being told "at least you have a healthy baby"! Like it doesn't matter WHAT happens to you as long as your child is reasonably healthy in the end.

[Imvishta]

Originally Posted by kathan12904

Condescension (sp?) is the main issue I dealt with. My OB gave me the most rudimentary explainations and answers to my questions, often repeating information to me that I had just expressed my knowledge and understanding of in our conversation. It was like he wasn't even listening to me thoughts or concerns, just honing in on one word that I had used in order to present to me a stock answer that he had ready. When I started bringing up my desires for the birth, he was always smiling and nodding and supportive, but followed all that with "unless something goes terribly wrong" or "as long as that is still safe" Over all, he always spoke to me in a sing-songy voice like I was a preschooler.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. Fortunately, my doctor spent a lot of time with me, and I felt very comforted. However, your post did remind me of the fact that I was sent a breastfeeding coach (in the hospital) who had never even had a child! I actually kind of felt sorry for her because I could tell she was nervous about the whole thing. We know how men feel about women medical professionals at all, much less dealing with something so specific to your own sex. I just feel that if they are going to have breastfeeding coaches who have never done so themselves they really need a lot of training in hands-on coaching because I'd already taken the class and read the articles and books myself!

Also, circa 1999 the American Medical Association did an in-house study, so to speak, which concluded that doctors are biased against women and minorities. Some were unaware of their bias, and some flat-out admitted it, saying that they felt women were too emtional and minorities would not follow-up with their care given. Those were, in general, the opinions expressed. And, it was the AMA reporting on their own members! I don't have time to find the study right now, nor write further on this topic, but it was no surprise to me. I just happened to have a good OB/GYN at the time of my pregnancy. I'll try to write more later...

[deuxceleste]

You may be interested in "misconception" by naomi wolf

[Mama Poot]

The worst misogyny I experienced during my first birth oddly enough came from a female nurse who'd obviously been a victim of it herself. She was mean to me the entire time, telling my family that I was faking my pain and I "couldn't be in that much pain, I've had three kids and I didn't act like that, etc..." When it came time for me to push, she threw my right leg back and injured my spine. When we moved to Arizona and I found a new chiropractor, they X-rayed me and found that I had a slipped disk that was causing me excruciating pain. That injury was not present until that nurse jammed my leg back. I'm guessing that nurse had just been around so many nasty, careless doctors that she had become numb to the emotions and feelings of real people. I will never forget how cruel she was to me and my family. My OB at that time was "ok" but my ideas about childbirth and the power of women's bodies are radically different from his. And maybe this is a sexist thing of me to say, but I don't think men have any place in the birthing process other than the fathers of the babies who are there to support the moms. Men will never be pregnant, men will never experience labor. I don't care how many books you read and how many hours of classes you've taken in med school- men will NEVER understand pregnancy and birth the way I feel is necessary to be so intimately involved with it. My 2 cents.

[phoebemommy]

Originally Posted by Mama Poot

And maybe this is a sexist thing of me to say, but I don't think men have any place in the birthing process other than the fathers of the babies who are there to support the moms. Men will never be pregnant, men will never experience labor. I don't care how many books you read and how many hours of classes you've taken in med school- men will NEVER understand pregnancy and birth the way I feel is necessary to be so intimately involved with it. My 2 cents.

I agree totally, but then I think of Michel Odent. He has done so many good things for the culture of birth. But I still agree with you, and I think Odent would even agree with you. I'm just thankful he's around -- reading his book Birth and Breastfeeding changed everything for me.

I'm so sorry to hear about your birth-back injury, btw! I'm no stranger to chiropractic woes, and if mine had been caused by a health care provider I'd be so angry.

[intorainbowz]

MamaPoot, I am so sorry for your pain. I brought an awful memory back.

When we were undergoing testing for infertility I had to have a HSG test. Basically, reactive die is injected into your uterus and then xrayed to see what the die shows.

I had a very large septum in my uterus. Had the radiologist read the report from an earlier ultrasound, he would have known this. He had not read that report.

DH and I arrived for our appointment. We waited nearly 2 hours. I believe I was treated this way because I asked a couple of times when we would be seen. First they refuesed to have DH in the procedure. They said it was for xray concerns. LIE. ALL of my friends who had this procedure had their SOs in there.

When I got into the room, they had a tech and a trainee there. The way they had me lay, if the door was open, everyone in the hall could see my vagina/vulva. I complained about this, and was treated rather rudely by the trainer, who said that no one was out there anyway. It was freezing in there, and I asked for a blanket. Trainer said it's not that cold, trainee, who was so very kind and nice, brought me a blanket and a pillow, which was apprieciated as I again had to wait for the radiologist while lying on the very hard x-ray table. Finally he gets there. He gives me a bit of a lecture about needing to be patient for medical providers.

He inserts the ice cold speculum. Umm... I don't think this guy had been anywhere near a vagina in years, because he inserted the speclum rather painfully. He started the procedure. He inserted the sound into my uterus, and the pain began. He tried to insert the die, and I screamed and the sound slipped out. I had seen a heart shaped uterus on the screen, then the tech whipped the screen around. She also told me it did not hurt that bad, and that I should "be still." As there are no sturrips on xray tables, my feet were slipping all over the place.

At my request, because he had not gotten enough dye in to check my tubes, the procedure began again. Again awful pain. Basically he was jabbing the instruments and syringe into the septum. Had he read the report he would have known it was there. I again screamed, this time the pressure from him trying to inject dye into my deformed uterus shot the syringe out. I was crying, and tech again said, "that's what a contraction feels like, so hope you never go into labor" to someone who was there for infertility testing.

I could barely stand after that. Tech said I needed to hurry because they needed the room. I went to the bathroom to try to clean the blood and dye running from me with toilet paper. I needed a pad, and asked for one. Tech said that they don't have them and I should have been prepared. I was not on my period when the test occured. Trainee went and got me a panty liner from her locker and apologized that the liner was all she had. So I went home bleeding all over myself.

When I left, limping out, DH was shocked. He said I was pale and looked awful. He said I looked like I had just been tortured. He was right. I would have been so much happier if he had been there. He would have yelled at the tech for treating me that way.

I complained mightly to the midwife who was overseeing my care. I actually wrote a formal complaint to the clinic. Very shortly after that, I terminated my relationship with that clinic.

[blessed]

HSG does hurt like hell, I presume like a contraction, which was what my doc also told me.

I've had the great fortune (sarcasm) of having had lots of invasive procedures in my life. I'm very stoic with pain, and typically have had medical personnel exclaim over how quiet I am, how calm I am, how well I tolerate pain, etc.

But when he injected that dye, I groaned and moaned. I didn't squirm away or yell to stop or otherwise impair the procedure, but as for the moaning I simply COULD NOT help it. It was very interesting to me, because I'd never experienced that before.

[Mama Poot]

Originally Posted by phoebemommy

I agree totally, but then I think of Michel Odent. He has done so many good things for the culture of birth. But I still agree with you, and I think Odent would even agree with you. I'm just thankful he's around -- reading his book Birth and Breastfeeding changed everything for me.

True true there are some saints out there. Dr Bradley, Dick-Read, all wonderful, caring men. Toddler trying to use bouncy seat as a diving board....

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by phoebemommy

I agree totally, but then I think of Michel Odent. He has done so many good things for the culture of birth. But I still agree with you, and I think Odent would even agree with you.

Odent repeatedly suggests having only one motherly midwife who sits quietly in a corner. The key with Odent, as with all good practioners, is that he doesn't ask "what can I do to improve the outcome?" but rather "what can I not do to keep from damaging a perfect process?"