Misogyny and birth - Page 4

[honeybee]

I am so sorry for all of you with such horrible experiences.

[*Erin*]

love to all of us. may our daughters be blessed enough to birth their children in a healthier atmosphere than we have.

[laprettygurl]

Originally Posted by Pandora114

wanna see Misogyny?

Go to

http://www.ob-gyn.net

Read the forum archives and have a bucket handy...you'll need it to puke in

www.obgyn.net. and yeah, have a bucket handy.

[caned & able]

Oh boy. I have to say, as a feminist, I thought I knew what misogyny looked like. Then I got pregnant.

Yes, and unfortunately, most feminists, in my opinion, have never had a child and never will. That is why there is so little activism in the pregnancy/delivery/postpartum political arena.

Mothers have been left out in the cold by the feminist movement. Read feminist Naomi Wolfe's book, Misconceptions, and decide for yourself. She herself succumbed to surgical birth twice even after meeting with Ina Mae Gaskin.

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

So, she thinks having someone's fingers rammed up your vagina, being cut ... unnecessarily ..., stuck with IV's, loaded with medications, and told when and what you can eat or drink ... is a hallmark of civilization and status?

YES!

[Cigilteach]

deleted

[Cigilteach]

oops double posted.

[cfiddlinmama]

I just want to second what pp have said about it not just being men. I had two different CNMs for my sons' births. The first one abused me so badly. She was horrible. I don't want to go into detail, but she acted just like the horrible OBs I've heard about, even though she was nice for prenatal visits. I was 17 with my second child so that probably had something to do with. Condencending, she even had the nerve to tell me she used to do homebirths (my first was born at home) but she realized hospital births were safer so she quit doing them. I'm Catholic so artificial birth control is out, but she hounded me for half an hour about it. I get so angry when I think about how she treated me. The second CNM, although much nicer, stripped my membranes at 37 weeks without asking or informing me. I went into labor 2 days later. When I realized what she did I was horrified. How dare she! She was pretty good during the birth though. I haven't experienced the horror stories here, but I can relate to feeling of being powerless and just letting them do it to you.

I went to a nurse practitioner gyn (on an AirForce base) for pap - she ended up doing the whole routine - harsh breast exam etc. She stuck her finger in my vagina and told me to squeeze. She said my pelvic floor muscles were so bad I would have my bladder fall out by the time I was 30. They aren't bad at all, I've never peed myself or anything. I do kegels all the time.... She gave me the bc talk even though I told her it was against my religion. She was condencending and rude. She had a horrible reputation. I've had preterm labor twice and the male ob's I've seen have treated me like an idiot. It's so frustrating. So while my experiences haven't been *that* bad, they were still a violation and it is unthinkable that such things go on all the time and hardly anybody does anything, because we are just good little patients. I'd like to think I wouldn't allow myself to be treated like that again. Hopefully I've learned my lesson. Thank you all for sharing your stories. I would like to refer people to this thread who think bad things don't happen in hospitals anymore.

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by caned & able

Yes, and unfortunately, most feminists, in my opinion, have never had a child and never will.

I have to disagree with this as well. I think we're well past the days when women think they can't be feminists and moms. Personally, I proudly label myself a feminist (as does my own mom, for that matter) and so do many, many of the moms I know.

[JanetF]

Radical feminist SAHM here, hi

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by cfiddlinmama

So while my experiences haven't been *that* bad...

And yet it's by treating women in a manner that's not "that bad" that careproviders come to have the sort of callous disregard that will permit them to committ the atrocities. It may not be "that bad" in an of itself (although icky as anything for you and I have said a small prayer that you'll find someone respectful) but it is symptomatic.

[Herausgeber]

Originally Posted by Cigilteach

Oh, I beg to differ, most feminists I know have children and I know a lot of feminists. Even the most "radical" of them get around to having babies eventually .

I also know quite a few women who were led to feminism after what they experienced when birthing. It took that experience for them to really "get it".

I, too, think there should be a much stronger movement within feminism regarding birth rights but that doesn't mean those who identify themselves as feminists are not having babies. They are. I'm just one of them.

J

Yes. Most of the feminists I know are mothers or plan to be. I think there is an awareness within feminist circles of how anti-woman a lot of the practices surrounding pregnancy and birth are, as well as concern about discrimination against mothers. But, like most of the feminist movement right now, these issues aren't getting much traction in the general public sphere.

My grandmother even told me once that unlike men, who tend to "mellow" and become more conservative as they age, women tend to do the opposite. And childbirth and mothering is often what really radicalizes them.

[caned & able]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

I have to disagree with this as well. I think we're well past the days when women think they can't be feminists and moms. Personally, I proudly label myself a feminist (as does my own mom, for that matter) and so do many, many of the moms I know.

This has been my experience. Do not discount me. I dropped my membership in NOW because there is no activism by that organization for women's health with regards to natural childbirth, unnecessary hysterectomies, prophylactic mastectomies, or dangerous birth control methods,

Warning :: Spoiler Ahead! Highlight to read message!

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outside of keeping abortion legal.

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[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by caned & able

This has been my experience. Do not discount me. I dropped my membership in NOW because there is no activism by that organization for women's health with regards to natural childbirth, unnecessary hysterectomies, prophylactic mastectomies, or dangerous birth control methods,

I'm not discounting your experience--just pointing out that it hasn't been mine (or that of many others on this board). I do agree with you that there is a often a tense relationship between the "feminist establishment" and mother's issues--but I think the reasons for that are far more complicated (particulary wrt the history of the feminist movement in this country) than just "feminists don't have babies."

[caned & able]

My experience has been that women I went to college and grad school with and with whom I work in my field of expertise do not have children and have made rude comments to me about being a mother with more than one or two children.

Reading MS magazine also leaves me out in the cold.

Women are often their own worst enemies.

[minkajane]

My saga

I felt so powerless when it came to my son's birth, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm military and so were the OBs I saw. I didn't feel I could stand up to them because they were Majors and I was only a Senior Airman. I tried - when I found out he was breech, the doctor immediately said C-section. I said "I'd still prefer a vaginal birth." He immediately said "No doctor here will do a breech vaginally, especially for a first-time mom." I shut up. At the next appointment (different doctor), I brought it up again. She said "The only way we'd do a breech vaginally is if it was a mom of five that came in with the baby hanging out of her." Again, I shut up. At my 37-week appointment, we found out he was still breech and the OB scheduled a version - but not until 39 weeks (when the baby's usually too big to turn anyway). She asked me if I wanted to do the C-section right away if we couldn't turn him, or if I wanted to wait till I went into labor. I guess that was the point I accepted the fact that I was having a C/S.

The next day, my water broke. I wasn't sure if it had broken, so I went to the clinic to be checked. Without even looking at me, the doctor started ranting about pregnant women peeing on themselves and thinking their water broke. he checked me and said I was at 5cm and sent me to the hospital. He said I should go straight there before the baby's feet fell out (he was NOT footling). I followed orders and went to the hospital for my C-section. When I was cleaned prior to the insertion of the catheter, I said ouch because the nurse was so rough and I have vestibulitis, and she MOCKED me, saying "That was just the cleaning wipe!" in a condescending tone. I asked for the curtain to be lowered, but was refused. I wasn't told what was going on, but at least my arms weren't strapped down. I had to tell the anesthesiologist twice that I couldn't breathe before he even looked at me, then all he did was put oxygen in my nose.

DS had to be bagged to breathe. He was wrapped up and handed to his dad. I got to see him for just a second, before he was taken to the step-down nursery and put under an Oxihood because he was grunting. As she walked out of the door, the nurse asked me if I wanted DS circumcised. If I had said yes, I have no doubt it would have happened then and there, before I got to nurse him or hold him, and before he was an hour old. I was taken to see him on the way to recovery, but I had to leave after a minute because it was so hot in there I was getting nauseated. DS's dad left to buy a camcorder and I went to recovery where I vomited alone for four hours.

Later that night, the nurse helped me pump my colostrum. She said she'd cup-feed him so he wouldn't get nipple confusion. She was so sweet and supportive that I was shocked when I got my records a year later and found out she'd also been cup-feeding him Similac without my permission. No wonder he was sleepy and not interested in latching when I finally got to nurse him - he was full!

I was forced to stay in bed all night with inflatable things on my legs. I couldn't sleep because my legs were so sweaty and itchy. After asking several times, I finally badgered one of the nurses into unstrapping my legs for a few minutes. I kept trying to lift my legs so air could get to the undersides, but she kept pushing them back down.

When I finally got to go see DS, I found out the nursery nurses hated me. I refused to let them give him a pacifier, which made one nurse whine about how long he took to settle down after I left after each night nurse. I forced them to call me every time he got fussy so I could come down and nurse him instead of letting them give him a pacifier or a bottle.

The day before we left, the pediatrician asked if I wanted DS circumcised. I said no and he said "Yeah, it's unnecessary, but I don't try to discourage parents from getting it done, because it's a procedure and I LIKE doing procedures!" Word for word what he said. My jaw hit the floor and I couldn't even respond. DS was NEVER left alone with that man!

ETA: The kicker to this whole thing was that I had been planning a UC. I wasn't really comfortable doing a breech UC for my first and I agreed to birth at the hospital if the baby remained breech. He did and I allowed myself to be bullied into an unnecessary C-section.




So that's my birth saga. That's just one example of what I've had to deal with. I endured four years of excruciatingly painful vaginal exams, rude questions, and rudeness before I could get a doctor to believe that I had vestibulitis. I was repeatedly told that it was all in my head, that I just wasn't using enough lube, or I wasn't aroused enough, or I might not love my husband, or I might not be sexually attracted to him. Most of this came from women, by the way. It took me two years of infertility and five years of symptoms before I could convince a doctor that I had PCOS. I'm just now being treated for it, seven years after my symptoms first appeared.

It's stories like these that make me even more determined to be a midwife. I will fight tooth and nail for the women in my care. I will treat them with respect and dignity and I will do everything in my power to give them the birth experience they deserve.

[sapphire_chan]

(Speaking of systematic misogyny....)

[Emilie]

Hugs mum of 3 nic.
I am from Freeport.
I reccomend you read Birthing From Within By Pam England.
It is a very good book and I think you would benefit from looking into HB.
Pm me if you want details.
My signature link is my homebirth video.

[Turkish Kate]

To the OP: Have you read Perfect Motherhood? It is an eye-opening and vivid description about how male medical "experts" have taken the authority and knowledge of child-rearing away from women and put it into their own "expert" hands.

For the rest of you, especially those who have shared their birth stories: I am so sorry that any woman has to go through this. Thank you for sharing, and hopefully your stories will teach other women to stand up for themselves and their babies.

One of the great disadvantages of the birth culture in the United States is that it is affecting other countries worldwide. The healthcare systems in other countries look to the US to set the tone and the standards of care and this is so patently obvious in maternity care. I live in Istanbul, Turkiye, where we had a choice of midwives and home birth ten years ago. Now, midwives have been forced out of the city and it is next to impossible to find someone to attend a homebirth. While midwives are still practicing in the more rural areas, they are viewed as substandard care-providers and are certainly not preferred. There is a definite push towards the "premium birth," the c-section under general anesthesia. It's only been in the last five years or so that epidural anesthesia has been used, but it must generally be requested for c-sections. Natural labors rarely occur in the middle- to upper-classes, with a 90% c-section rate. Breastfeeding is also on the decline, as it's seen to be more "fashionable," hence more American or Western to feed formula with bottles. Even the doctors buy into this warped view of childbirth by encouraging scheduled c-sections and discouraging breastfeeding. The American way of birth is truly infectious.

[stacyann21]

It is an eye-opening and vivid description about how male medical "experts" have taken the authority and knowledge of child-rearing away from women and put it into their own "expert" hands.

I really think that is the issue in a nutshell. Supposedly women's bodies are defective during pregnancy, they don't know how to give birth or are physically unable to and they certainly can't breastfeed. But not to worry, the "experts" are standing by with all the necessary knowledge And I agree that many women see having an induction on the day of their choosing with an epidural followed by a nice, long hospital stay is just the epitome of a priveleged birth.