Help me convince her natural isn't bad

[christifav]

My gf is expecting a son in 3 weeks and is "processing all the information" and she goes "back and forth" on the circumcision thing.

Her biggest fear: She knows a guy whose "extra skin" (like it is extra, not natural, anyway) was too tight when he'd have an erection and it was very painful for him and he was circ'd at 10 yrs old and it was a horrible experience for him. I imagine this guy is in his early 30s now.

Please help me ease her fears of a late circumcision. I am afraid that just telling her "if you leave it alone your son may have problems but if you do it he will have to endure a painful surgery which very likely may have been unnecessary" is not enough.

If any of you remember, she's the one I sent the whole big packet of info to...including the Mothering circ issue and the CD with Penn & Teller, the circ video, The Prepuce and some other stuff on it. She's gotten a ton of "anti-circ" info from me and she points out that it "fails to talk about the potential negative consequenses of not circumcising." (her words)

[kldliam]

Potenital negative consequences of not circing: there are potential negative consequences for every action or inaction in life. There are far more potential negative consequences for circing, has she considered that? Bottom line, it is preemptive surgery on a healthy body part. She is struggling with an irrational fear of the unknown, but i am not sure how you can tell her that.

Remind her that it's the adults who get adequate pain control for the procedure...the infants have to suffer through an agonizing 30 minutes of hell, often with insufficient or no anesthesia!

No 2 people are alike. I know lots of people who get repeated vaginal infections, but i don't. I would never choose an irreversible procedure (esp. for someone else!) because 1 person i know has had some issues. Far more people don't have these issues. 80% of the planet is intact and there is no global foreskin crisis that I am aware. Good Luck. Thanks for trying with her.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Honestly I dont know of any negative consequences. In life there will be sickness girls will probably get yeast infections and maybe UTI so will boys. There are no guarantees that he wont have trouble but everything that he may encounter can be treated just like it can be with girls.

If he does get a infection abx. If he gets yeast then he can use 7 day cream or difulucan. If he is a teen and he is experiencing tight foreskin simple stretching exercises with or without the use of a steroid cream will remedy the issue. If he has a tight frenulum then a simple procedure were they make little snips in it will loosen it up.

Things have come a ways since the boy she talks about was circed. All tho many USA dr still see foreskin=cut it off there are Dr who know how to deal with these issues the right way.

Here is a link to fixing true phimosis http://www.cirp.org/library/treatment/phimosis/ As you can see it does not include cutting it off.

The odds of something happening are pretty low less than 1% according to most studies that he will have issues. But the odds of circ complications are around 10% including meatel stenosis, adhesions, skin bridges, scaring etc.

[glongley]

If she's imagining or wanting to know all the worst case scenarios, maybe she'd benefit from reading "Protect Your Uncircumcised Son" by Paul Fleiss. This covers all the reasons someone might be told they "need" to be circumcised later in life, and gives all the info you need to understand why this is not true. pretty much blows the "he'll just have to have it done later" argument out of the water.

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

Gillian

[christifav]

Thank you all! I knew you would lead me to the best resourses! Plus, you know I am no good with words, so I appreciate your eloquence and hope you don't mind if I borrow some key phrases!

Fingers crossed that she comes around!!!

[EastonsMom]

All I got to say...

has she seen the video?! :

Even with the sound off it makes me vomit!

So what is potentialy negative with leaving the human body alone like God intended it?: We are not made imperfect with the hope that a med student will cut off half of a males sex organ to make it works right or 'looks pretty'.

Should they have taken my appendix and tonsills out my first or second day of life with, with no REAL pain meds, with the indent of protecting me from the possibilty of my getting appedicitis or tonsilitis? just wondering?

I heard some good advice on here once. Could she wait six monthes to make her decsion. Give them time to bond with him and see him WHOLE and learn that there is nothing to it(care wise and for there own mental veiw of it) . If they agree to do it then, then that is just beyond me. Good luck!

[star2589]

Originally Posted by christifav

My gf is expecting a son in 3 weeks and is "processing all the information" and she goes "back and forth" on the circumcision thing.

Her biggest fear: She knows a guy whose "extra skin" (like it is extra, not natural, anyway) was too tight when he'd have an erection and it was very painful for him and he was circ'd at 10 yrs old and it was a horrible experience for him. I imagine this guy is in his early 30s now.

Please help me ease her fears of a late circumcision. I am afraid that just telling her "if you leave it alone your son may have problems but if you do it he will have to endure a painful surgery which very likely may have been unnecessary" is not enough.

If any of you remember, she's the one I sent the whole big packet of info to...including the Mothering circ issue and the CD with Penn & Teller, the circ video, The Prepuce and some other stuff on it. She's gotten a ton of "anti-circ" info from me and she points out that it "fails to talk about the potential negative consequenses of not circumcising." (her words)

the fact is that there are real negative consequences to circumcising, and only potential negative consequences to leaving him intact. she needs some perspective... for example supposing that penile cancer was 3 times higher amoung the intact, it would take 100,000 RICs to prevent one case of penile cancer in old age. infants arent even at risk for penile cancer!

[buckeyedoc]

You might also point out to your friend that the chances of actually needing a late circumcision are very, very small. For example, Wallerstein (Wallerstein E. Circumcision: an American Health Fallacy. New York: Springer, 1980) calculated that 1 in 16667 Finnish boys/men not circumcised as infants were later circumcised as adults. That's a pretty low risk. More effective anesthetics and pain relieving drugs can be given to an adult. Also, the adult surgery only involves cutting the foreskin at its base (in a ring around the penis) rather than dissecting it off of the glans while it is still completely fused in the infant.

The man she was describing with paraphimosis or phimosis might have been able to be treated medically these days (like with topical steroids) rather than by circumcision. Also, his condition might have been caused by early retraction leading to adhesions.

I personally know several women whose sons had circumcision problems, either immediate post-op infection or later on because of adhesions or too much skin being removed. I find it much riskier than leaving the penis as Mother Nature (or God, depending on your views) intended. Plus, some circumcised men who've had too much skin removed still say that erections are painful because of tight skin.

[calngavinsmom]

You might want to include this link for her:
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

It is from the Canadian Pediatric Society who point out that a circumcised infant has the same risk for needing to be REcircumcised later in life as an intact infant is at risk for needing to be circumcised at all. And since the majority of intact children who are circumcised later are done because of scarring from improper care and as a result of a ill informed doctor, the incidence of a recirc is actually much higher.

That is TWO surgeries with all of the pain and risk that goes along with them, instead of a very slim chance of "needing" one later.

Take care,
Tara