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Does everyone "really" spank? - Page 5  

post #81 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacelovingmama View Post
So true. It really comes down to what we find acceptable on some level. DH was raised being hit and, although he has never hit our kids, he does struggle not to be physical (pulling DS into his room, grabbing him, etc.) when he is angry.

Once, when we discussed this he explained that "he just gets so angry he can't not do it." I asked him if he has ever been that angry with me. He said yes. Then I asked if he has ever considered putting his hands on me. He was totally appalled and said "no, of course I never would do that." So I asked him why it was that he gave himself permission to indulge his anger at our kids' expense but not mine. It was very thought-provoking.

He basically came to the conclusion that, having grown up seeing kids violated like that, but never adults, he internalized on some level that violence against kids is more acceptable. He rejects this internalized message but boy is it a powerful one! And he, like so many parents, has to really work hard to remind himself that it is no more acceptable to hit young people than it is to hit older people.
that is so true!
and a wonderful way to illustrate to someone who thinks its okay.
it also could explain to people who dont understand why most of us are so appalled at the thought of hitting children.

no ones trying to attack spankers but imagine your reaction if someone said they hit thier partner.
post #82 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by poxybat View Post
the only thing i found issue with is that you seem to be taking the stance that hitting children is just something young mothers do, which it is not. its like some horrible pervasive myth that we young mothers just arent thinking.

im sure youre an awesome mom and you shouldnt feel attacked. your words just rubbed me the wrong way.
poxy~ I'm not taking a stance that young mothers always hit their kids. I think it has a lot to do with maturity. I might not be as mature as you, even if you are younger than me (I'm born august 81, but I'm a late-bloomer... didn't have boobs till 16, etc... I feel young right now, like I'm 15)... It has to do with being able to work through the crap, before having kids (which I was not able to do) Did you live alone for many years before being pregnant? did you procreate with a man you felt was worthy of producing offspring with? Are you happy now in your marriage?

god, there are so many things to contribute to how someone "ends up". Every single person has differnt DNA, and different circumstances. I guess the mind is what really needs to be changed, but some people just aren't ready for that yet.

If I ever end up on this board (I don't come here very often, obviously) I think I will be not at all judgemental of people who hit, and want to change. I'm not the type to do that. I care about the mother feelings, as much as the childs.

I'm glad that there are people like you, who really stick up for childrens rights all the time.

I think it's great if you don't spank, even though you grew up in an abusive home. that's quite a feat, and it must be hard for you.
post #83 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by majazama View Post
I have a very hard time being totally GD.



I think if I had planned my pregnancies, grew up, and had stability in my life (partner, $, home...) I would be a total GD-nut, like you all are.

maybe I'll be where you are one day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poxybat View Post
excuse me but i was 21 when my first was born, totally traumatic unplanned pregnancy, i moved around alot, lived with his mom then my mom, dp didnt commit to our family til sandrel was 7 months old. my dad abused my mom and my mom took it all out on me. not spaking, all out true abuse.
never really planned pregnancies(second was welcomed but not planned), i dont have a stable relationship with my dp, were in poverty and renting from a slumlord. and im a total GD-nut.

please dont buy into the 'young/poor mothers arent as good' rhetoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippiemommie View Post
This rubs me wrong too. My bestfriend lived in a cemetary and a shelter (when there was room) through her prengancy when she was 18. She even got disowned by her family and grew up in a VERY abusive home. She never hit her child. She was GD and didn't/doesn't know it. I don't think there is any excuse for hitting someone who can't defend themselves. Partners or stabitlity isn't going to make GD easier for you. You can only change yourself, within yourself. Those things are external.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
I don't think it's fair or meaningful to compare people's responses to stress or life situations. Some people could endure the worst situations imaginable and never feel an urge to hit. Others deal with those urges at even mild provocations.
I don't think majazama ever said that ALL young mothers spank their kids- she's saying that these were her personal circumstances, it's straining her personal reserves and sometimes she's not able to control her urges to hi. Nowhere did she say that ALL young mothers spank or that ALL young mothers struggle with self-control- she's simply sharing her own story.

I will admit that I've also lost my temper and hit my kids. I'm not proud of it, and I'm working very very hard to control myself, but I'm not always sucessful.

I really have a problem with the "would you hit your spouse or partner?" argument. With an adult partner, you have the option of walking away, or sending him/her away, when things get heated. When you're responsible for a small child, you don't have that option. You can't go out for a walk to clear your head and leave a young child (or several young children) in the house alone. Sometimes you can't even get 5 minutes without being touched.
post #84 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I really have a problem with the "would you hit your spouse or partner?" argument. With an adult partner, you have the option of walking away, or sending him/her away, when things get heated. When you're responsible for a small child, you don't have that option. You can't go out for a walk to clear your head and leave a young child (or several young children) in the house alone. Sometimes you can't even get 5 minutes without being touched.
Also, I doubt many of our husbands or partners bite our nipples (well maybe if you like it they do : ) or kick us in the face during diaper changes.

~Nay
post #85 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin View Post
Also, I doubt many of our husbands or partners bite our nipples (well maybe if you like it they do : ) or kick us in the face during diaper changes.

~Nay
Or repeatedly scream a high-pitched scream at the top of their lungs, just because they can, or any of the other annoying things that toddlers and young children do that completely get on everybody's nerves.

Between childish behaviors (tantrums, biting nipples, etc) and the constant care (lack of privacy, sleep, and sometimes nutrition) children can evoke rage in a parent that we never knew we were capable of!
post #86 of 135
I grew up in a household where spanking/hitting was pretty infrequent (especially for the South). I was spanked maybe 6-7 times total and always over clothes. No red marks or bruises. So I got off pretty lucky there. They weren't above the occaisonal slap, screaming tirade, grab, yank, etc. etc... you know how it is. I consider my mom to have been seriously emotionally abusive. Dad wasn't but since he runs his own business he wasn't home as much as we (my sisters and I) would've liked.

Someone mentioned genetics earlier in the thread. I'm sure that plays a huge role in how you feel in a situation and even how you react. But, I also agree with someone else who says you have to take control of yourself. I can use myself as an example. I have a bad temper. Mom said a few times that I have "The Classic Italian Temper" I'm quick tempered and oh god do I get pissed. And I mean like that **snaps fingers** I'm talking kick a hole through the wall type mad. But it's over in a split second. I am never, ever angry longer than it takes to mutter explitives under my breath or kick something across the room (I'm working on that--hey I haven't thrown something in anger in quite a while ) The thing is, with my temper and my upbringing I could have easily ended up a spanking parent. But I didn't. I made a promise to myself, my husband, and my son that he would never be spanked by anyone. He's 2 and I've kept that promise. It's hard, even after two years I sometimes feel like I could hit him if I would only give myself permission. That's why I'm so glad I made that promise.

Oh and sadly I know more than one AP/NFL family who spanks/smacks hands.

~Nay
post #87 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by majazama View Post
poxy~ I'm not taking a stance that young mothers always hit their kids. I think it has a lot to do with maturity. I might not be as mature as you, even if you are younger than me (I'm born august 81, but I'm a late-bloomer... didn't have boobs till 16, etc... I feel young right now, like I'm 15)... It has to do with being able to work through the crap, before having kids (which I was not able to do) Did you live alone for many years before being pregnant? did you procreate with a man you felt was worthy of producing offspring with? Are you happy now in your marriage?

god, there are so many things to contribute to how someone "ends up". Every single person has differnt DNA, and different circumstances. I guess the mind is what really needs to be changed, but some people just aren't ready for that yet.
i was born in aug 82, i feel about 16, never lived on my own, pregnancy was unplanned and i certaintly wouldnt have picked him, im not married.
ive been working through my crap since i found out i was pregnant. with the added fun of bipolar, ocd, ed, poverty, and a crumbling relationship.
of course every person has thier own contributions and baggage but at some point you have to start taking responsibility for your actions.

im not saying this to you or trying to be harsh or anything but your own violations are no reason to violate another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majazama View Post
I think it's great if you don't spank, even though you grew up in an abusive home. that's quite a feat, and it must be hard for you.
it is hard... but most good things are

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I don't think majazama ever said that ALL young mothers spank their kids- she's saying that these were her personal circumstances, it's straining her personal reserves and sometimes she's not able to control her urges to hi. Nowhere did she say that ALL young mothers spank or that ALL young mothers struggle with self-control- she's simply sharing her own story.
i never said that she said *all* young mothers hit, i didnt initiate absolutes in my original post.
i have no issue with her personal circumstances, i dont even have an issue with her losing control and hitting her child(ren). my issue was her rationale that less should be expected of her because of age.

as a young mother i find that rationale extremely offensive.
post #88 of 135
Quote:
Also, I doubt many of our husbands or partners bite our nipples (well maybe if you like it they do ) or kick us in the face during diaper changes.

Quote:
Or repeatedly scream a high-pitched scream at the top of their lungs, just because they can, or any of the other annoying things that toddlers and young children do that completely get on everybody's nerves.
Can we please not blame the children (even in a joking way).
post #89 of 135
No judgement from me, but please be careful with the lack of maturity reasoning and the when my kids get older reasoning. My father was 33 when I was born. I was spanked and belittled as a child. Did it get better the older he and I got? No! I was screamed at, pushed to the ground(and kicked while I was down once!), hair was pulled, punched in the arms and legs, etc,etc until I moved out at 16. Dealing with a child as they get older often gets MORE difficult as they become independant. Address the issues now while it's still fairly "easy". I'm not saying you will become abusive as your child gets older but be careful.
post #90 of 135
I wanted to add that my father still claims that while he sometimes did things wrong I was a horrible difficult child. The implication that it's not so much his fault. If I say I'm tired because of the baby it's "payback" because I was such a demanding baby. A parent needs to take responsibility for their actions and work to change them if they want a good relationship with their child. I have a hard time even seeing my father 2-3 times a year.
post #91 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysideup View Post
Can we please not blame the children (even in a joking way).
: We could also emphasize that most people have passionate love relationships with their partners that evoke extremely intense emotions. That only adult partners (not children) engage in the most provocotive behaviors such as commiting adultery, doing disastrous things with family finances, developing frustrating and devastating addictions, etc. etc. I'm not sure that it's fruitful to use the victim's actions to rationalize or compare levels of justification for family violence.

Another point: a child is defenseless. And adult can seek and obtain legal protection. I will stand right by my original analogy. Family violence is wrong, no matter which member is on the receiving end.

I will add that I am not one to demonize spousal/partner abusers either. They are most often also perpetuating a cycle of violence and too were once victims. Batterers who seek help and change are also heroic, in my eyes. The key to ending family violence is not blaming or or saying one form is "worse" than another. It's zero-tolerance for ALL of it, IMO.

I only compare adult vs. child violence to help people realize that, while one it still legal and one is not, they are both wrong. Sort of the way the intactivists often invoke female genital mutilation to get people thinking about male circ. Also, interesting (and sad fact): some studies have found a correlation between certain levels of corporal punishment of a child and that child's propensity to commit and/or endure violence against an adult partner later in life. SO there may be more of a link than people realize.
post #92 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
...children can evoke rage in a parent that we never knew we were capable of!
So do adult partners. This is why the law lowers murder charges in certain circumstances to manslaugher if the killer was adequately "provoked" -- most often in situations of adultery. Also may be why so many women are killed by male partners.: It's all very sad. At the end of the day though, even if a family member bites your nipple, has a tantrum, cheats on you, or mismanages the family finances, violence is never justifiable.
post #93 of 135
No, everyone doesn't spank but here's a little background:

I grew up in an extremely violent home. My father beat up my mom and my mother beat us up. We were beat with a belt, slapped in the face, kicked in the belly all in a dark room with the doors/windows shut.

what excuse did my mother have for the abuse? she was young when she had the first child (21 yrs, domestic violence victim, etc)

Do I still resent my mother? YES. she could have left the situation. she could have changed herself instead of hitting innocent children who cannot defend themselves. this subject really heats me up because it breaks my heart to hear about other kids going through what we did. Always being scared, timid, nervous and just sad children..

Thank you to pps who gave such positive advice. I really urge not to take it lightly. apologies and excuses do not make it better.

I strive not to yell or lose it when I deal with children (I'm an early childhood educator).. and I hope never to see the day where I hit my kid out of anger.

I'm not my mother and I'm not my father. I'm not a victim of my circumstances as a PP said. This is my mantra and it works!

good luck to those who really want to change. You can change NOW and not wait till they get old enough to talk because then it will become a habit or an addiction much like smoking.
post #94 of 135
this is directed towards me? I don't want this whole thread to be about me.

I don't beat my kids, come on. they are not scared of me. I swat their bums once in awhile. You have no freakin clue what it's like to be me.

poxy~ I have bipolar too! It sure doesn't help anything.
post #95 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by majazama View Post
this is directed towards me? I don't want this whole thread to be about me.

I don't beat my kids, come on. they are not scared of me. I swat their bums once in awhile. You have no freakin clue what it's like to be me.

poxy~ I have bipolar too! It sure doesn't help anything.
no this thread isnt about you, weve said it loud and clear. its not that you hit your kids. its your rationalizing thats troublesome.
post #96 of 135
I was told the same thing . . .that EVERYONE spanks at some point. (I had said I'd never spank.) That made me think . . .I changed my "I will never spank" to "I pray [I'm not even a praying kind of person!] I will never spank, because it will always be a mistake."

Thus far, I have never spanked. DD doesn't even know what that word means (yet she uses words like "astonished" ). However, I HAVE yelled far too many times (and on certain occasions, in truly scary ways -- I consider that to be just as bad or worse than spanking), have been impatient or unrealistic (my expectations), a few times moved her roughly, things like that. Thankfully, those times were wake-up calls that I had to make serious changes, and I paid attention . . .

I was spanked a few times (I think) as a child . . .I only remember once, running away from my dad when he was going to do it. I don't remember any fear or humiliation, as one might expect. I thought of it as a game, to be honest. However, I think spanking (for me to do to my DC) even once might be like opening Pandora's box. I just don't want to go there!
post #97 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by blsilva View Post
I think that if you have a good idea how to discipline without spanking, then you probably will not resort to spanking. For me, as with many, spanking was something I did because I knew no other way. It never felt right, just seemed to be the only option. You have a head start- you already know how to discipline without punishment. Now make a vow to yourself that you wil never spank, and make sure you have good ways of dealing with all possible situations, and you are setting yourself up for success.
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post #98 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by poxybat View Post
no this thread isnt about you, weve said it loud and clear. its not that you hit your kids. its your rationalizing thats troublesome.
Exactly!

I really am not judging those who have a hard time with it or saying that they are as bad as my parents. I was just sharing my experience and the mindset that my mother had was very similar (knowing it's wrong but rationalizing it).
post #99 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacelovingmama View Post
So do adult partners. This is why the law lowers murder charges in certain circumstances to manslaugher if the killer was adequately "provoked" -- most often in situations of adultery. Also may be why so many women are killed by male partners.: It's all very sad. At the end of the day though, even if a family member bites your nipple, has a tantrum, cheats on you, or mismanages the family finances, violence is never justifiable.
post #100 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
I really have a problem with the "would you hit your spouse or partner?" argument. With an adult partner, you have the option of walking away, or sending him/her away, when things get heated. When you're responsible for a small child, you don't have that option. You can't go out for a walk to clear your head and leave a young child (or several young children) in the house alone. Sometimes you can't even get 5 minutes without being touched.
The opposite is true as well. Just like you said - adults have the option of walking away when things get heated. Kids do not.
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