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Is Christmas a lie? - Page 3

post #41 of 54
11/19/06 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for responding. I'm still not sure exactly how we will celebrate the season, but I am feeling more perspective about it.
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post #42 of 54
12/6/06 at 11:00pm
I ran across an article in a http://www.ucg.org magazine, and it was basically, why they don't celebrate Christmas, they had some very good points and scriptural references as to why Christmas isn't an appropriate holiday - God stating in various places that we were only to celebrate the Holy Days handed down by him, and not to mingle them with pagan customs. I know as a new Christian (previously pagan) it feels VERY iffy to celebrate it , not sure what to do! They have a free booklet on the subject that I am waiting for -http://www.ucg.org/booklets/
post #43 of 54
12/7/06 at 2:49am
In our house, it's all a big lie but a fun one. And I don't care. We aren't Christian but we do santa and so that is where it is obviously a lie. We talk about santa to the kids, santa fills their stockings and eats the cookies and milk they leave by the fireplace for him. That's about it. I am pretty sure my 13 year old is the only one who has ever even heard of Jesus (except for in the explicative form) so we haven't told any story about that yet to the little ones.

My personal life aside, I love the stories of the ancient religious festivals and the evolutions of the more recent holiday celebrations. The whole thing is so interesting to me, I love learning about it. It isn't something we have discussed with the kids though, that is more like the post wine adult discussion around here. Except I have talked about Christmas and early Christians and the pagan celebrations that preceeded Christmas and all that with my oldest. Anyway, I don't have anything to add, I've just enjoyed the discussion.
post #44 of 54
12/7/06 at 7:44am
I'm actually grateful that Christians stole some Pagan customs and now we have Christmas lights near and through the shortest day of the year. Gives me hope that light will soon return.

My dh the atheist likes communal rituals so we celebrate Christmas and do Santa. We're all about the lies. :
post #45 of 54
12/13/06 at 11:57am
We are Christian and don't celebrate Christmas either. For the reasons that JenniferC pointed out.
post #46 of 54
12/15/06 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiri View Post
I would say that as long as the speaker is saying that "Christmas when the birth of Jesus is celebrated," rather than "Christmas is when Jesus was born" or "Christmas is Jesus's birthday", that there is no lie.

Historical accuracy may be up for debate, but that's another discussion.
Being a pagan who was raised as a christian and having heard all the differant side about the whole historical aspect I have to agree with Meiri.
post #47 of 54
12/19/06 at 5:30pm
to me christmas is not a lie. no matter what semantics u use - birth or season. it is a personal 'holiday' for me. it is a spiritual celebration. it really doesnt matter when christ was born or even where or even what year.

i see it the same as celebrating my dd's bday. not a woohoo thing but more as a birthingday day - grateful that she is in my life. same thing with christmas. grateful that christ was born. of course as she grows older we have her party on a different day - the weekend so eveyrone will be there. but her birthday is v. special to me that i celebrate in my own way.
post #48 of 54
12/20/06 at 3:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace View Post
I don't see it as a lie. I see it as a practical move on the early Church's part as well as an expression of need to celebrate the coming of light into darkness. For Christians, Jesus is the Light. I actually find it a beautiful way that all religions are expressing deep, similar truths.
: I learned early on that Jesus wasn't actually born in December, and I'm not a Christian according to most Christians. But I've always loved the stories and symbolism surrounding Christmas. We adore the whole Santa thing, too. Myths are not lies. They are deeply meaningful, they resonate in our souls, they guide us.
post #49 of 54
12/22/06 at 3:45am
Quote:
Myths are not lies. They are deeply meaningful, they resonate in our souls, they guide us.
YES!!! I agree. Santa, the Spirit of Giving as DD informed me this year (after I've been explaining this to her for the last 4 years), is very much not a lie.

Of course every person/family doesn't have to use the same Myths.
post #50 of 54
12/23/06 at 2:52am

Thank you for saying myth and not lie....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiri View Post
YES!!! I agree. Santa, the Spirit of Giving as DD informed me this year (after I've been explaining this to her for the last 4 years), is very much not a lie.

Of course every person/family doesn't have to use the same Myths.
So glad to see this. I don't see it as a lie either. Myth is much more appropriate. When it comes time to explain the reality of Santa Claus I intend to talk about how we are all Santa Claus for each other---with a lot of emphasis on the spirit of giving and of looking out for each other. And to combine this teaching with an invitation to join me in some holiday-time giving (a la mdc hh, hefer international, letters to santa from families in need, etc.)

This can serve as an initiation/transformation. At the same time I have to say that I feel very confused this year about why/what I am celebrating . I guess what means the most to me at this time of year is giving till it hurts first, showering gifts of gratitude and appreciation on family and friends second. Doing the first somehow makes the second more pleasurable.

...not trying to kill the thread. really.

still seeking...
post #51 of 54
12/23/06 at 3:52am
I don't know in what season Jesus was born... However, I don't think that *any* single date in the Gregorian calendar could adequately represent Jesus's birthday, since Jesus was Jewish. For those who are unaware, the Jewish calendar is based on the lunar month cycle. Thus, dates fixed in the Jewish calendar seem to "move around" in the Gregorian calendar, and vice versa.

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

Therefore, it doesn't really make sense to me to say that December 25 is the "wrong" or "right" anniversary date of Jesus's birth. It's simply the date on which Jesus's birth is observed. I think of it as similar to the holiday of Washington's birthday (which has now become Presidents' Day):
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
George Washington was actually born on February 11, 1731 of the Julian calendar, in use before England's calendar reformation in September 1752. His birthday is equivalent to February 22, 1732 in the Gregorian calendar used since 1752. [...] Observance of Washington's Birthday on the third Monday of February dates to the Uniform Monday Holiday Bill of 1968, which became effective in 1971. [...] Supporters of the bill assured Congress the Monday selected would be a day on which Washington's birth date would occasionally fall, but this was incorrect. The Monday on which Washington's birth date would have occasionally fallen would have been the fourth Monday in February.
Disclaimer: I'm Jewish, and I believe that Jesus was a historical figure.
post #52 of 54
12/24/06 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmh23 View Post
Santa Claus is really Saint Nicholas. I believe it's the german. Saint Nicholas travelled around and gave gifts to children.
Nope, St. Nicholas was from Asia Minor, the land that we now call Turkey (Turkiye). (Side note: all of the Seven Churches of the Apocalypse of St. Paul are also located on Asia Minor.) There are many different tales about the generosity of St. Nicholas, including stories of how he provided dowries to poor girls, enabling them to marry. The Church of St. Nicholas is located in Demre, Turkiye.
post #53 of 54
1/9/07 at 6:22pm
I wouldn't call Christmas a lie, but its certainly an oddity. Jesus was not born in December, (as a pp mentioned) he was Jewish and living in Israel and therefore using the Hebrew lunar calendar and the symbolisms of Christmas (the date, hanging greens, trees, Santa, etc.) are all ripped off from various pagan religions (which is forbidden in the Bible). For this reason some Christians are begining to question the irony and possible error of celebrating this day. I myself don't celebrate it.

Kristi
post #54 of 54
1/17/07 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTMomma View Post
Ok, historians are pretty sure Jesus was born in the spring. The holiday was stolen from the pagans. (If you are unaware of these things, please start a new thread to ask or do some research).
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread yet, but fwiw, it's generally considered to be sometime in Fall, around Sukkot.