What about when the have to do something?

[Pattyla]

My dd has to take her medicine. It tastes bad. I agree. I do my best to make it taste better but there is only so much I can do.

It has become a huge power struggle. It isn't an optional thing. She will be 3 in January. We are one month into two months of taking it daily.

Anyone with any ideas? We go with every idea she come up with but then she won't follow through. I'm down to threatening her and still it is a huge struggle.

My current tactic is to not allow her to nurse untill she takes it. She usually nurses every 2 hours or so round the clock if I am present. She last nursed 5 hours ago. I hate it but it is that important that she take this.

HELP! I don't know what to do!

[myrmom]

can you offer her something as a reward if she takes it rather then a punishment??

[Pattyla]

I can't come up with a reward that is rewarding enough for her.

We have tried
Reading books
trip to the park
stickers
coloring
eating lunch
various toys
calling grandma

We don't have a tv
She can't have any sweets, not even honey.
I can't think of a food that she likes enough to offer it as a reward other than the applesauce the stuff is already mixed into. I have offered her additional, undoctored applesauce but that isn't really appealing.

ETA- I origionally thought that nursing would be her reward for taking them. Now it has been so long that it seems more like a punishment though.

[NiteNicole]

Can you add it to something that has a little more taste than apple sauce? Some kind of pudding or something? Can the med be compounded (I've never done this so I don't know much about compounding but it seems to help other people)?

I thought of one other thing...when my dd was very very small she had to take some pretty funky tasting meds. It helped to put them in a dropper so we could drop them waaaaay in the back of her throat, nearly by passing the tongue altogether. I don't know if a three year old would hold still (I was doing this with an infant) for that but it might be worth trying.

[Embee]

Oh, this sounds tough, mama. An absolute non-negoitable causing a daily power struggle. Power struggles effect the overall relationship between parent and child and I imagine as time goes along, it gets worse and worse. Hang in there!

The only thing I can offer is to remember that this is about power. She doesn't have it here and that is "hard to swallow" so to speak. OTOH, is there something else in your lives where you could extend some power to her? If she was able to regain or obtain power in some other aspect of her life, it might at the very least, create a place for daily healing and reconnection between you and her.

Play is a powerful tool toward this end. I suggest a special "playtime" with her each day that is labled as such. A time when you focus on her, undistracted and undivided, and most importantly, allow her to lead the play: follow her cues and allow yourself to be bossed around, play what she wants to play how she wants to play it for say, 20-30 minutes or as long as you can manage (or stand! ). Maybe immediately following medicine time? I would not present this as a "reward" (I'm not a rewards person I'll admit) but simply because you love her and want to heal the relationship and break the tension and the arching effects that a daily power struggle can cause a relationship. Soley for the purpose of reconnecting the two of you, and giving her a forum to possibly play through this daily trauma. It may or may not eleviate the power struggle itself, but it will go far allowing you both to heal from it and put your relationship in better standing... giving less power to the power struggle itself.

Some possible scenarios that I've used are the obvious approach, in that you make a crown of paper, place it atop her head and tell the "queen" that you are her humble servant. Tell her that for the next 20 minutes, you are hers to boss around in any way she likes. And then do it. Jump in, be silly (or deadly serious!), fall all over yourself trying to keep up with the demands, etc. Another approach would be to simply say, "For the next half hour, I'm all yours! We're playing what you want to play, how you want to play it. Where do you want me?" The key is, to allow her absolute power (baring any unhealthy or life-threatening acts that is ) and let her KNOW that she is the boss in a very plain and clear way. You OTOH, are in the position of the person without the power. You're likely to see some illuminating things in her play... play is always soooo illuminating if we're tuned in. Maybe she'll want to "feed you the medicine" for a change, or maybe she'll cover this territory in a more subtle way.

I actually try to make special playtime with my son as often as possible whether there are power struggles or not. I believe that this kind of play can actually circumvent the very power struggles that threaten to decay our relationships with our children.

One other thing that has happened with us is that when there is a power struggle going on, DS might take to "creating" more of them in other areas to get his point across. Maybe he'd dump his food more say... if whatever "it" was wasn't actually all that damaging (albeit a little inconvenient), I'd make sure to notice and make a big silly fuss... ACK! You crunched crackers into the carpet! ACK ACK! He thinks, "Mom doesn't want me doing this, but she doesn't have the power to stop me either!" The issue with this approach however is that you have to be in for the "long haul" as it may persist awhile until he's filled up. If you're not up for dealing with it on a daily basis for a good long while, I suggest the "circumvent" route and just play play play!

My two cents. For what it's worth. Hang in there mama!

Em

[zeldamomma]

When my kids really don't want to do something, it seems to help to talk about what we'll do afterwards-- for medicine, they like if they can see the cup of water they'll use to rinse the taste away before they take the medicine. Maybe make a game of how fast she can drink the water after she takes the medicine?

I'm sorry you're dealing with this-- I hope the month goes by quickly.

ZM

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Embee

Oh, this sounds tough, mama. An absolute non-negoitable causing a daily power struggle. Power struggles effect the overall relationship between parent and child and I imagine as time goes along, it gets worse and worse. Hang in there!

The only thing I can offer is to remember that this is about power. She doesn't have it here and that is "hard to swallow" so to speak. OTOH, is there something else in your lives where you could extend some power to her? If she was able to regain or obtain power in some other aspect of her life, it might at the very least, create a place for daily healing and reconnection between you and her.

Play is a powerful tool toward this end. I suggest a special "playtime" with her each day that is labled as such. A time when you focus on her, undistracted and undivided, and most importantly, allow her to lead the play: follow her cues and allow yourself to be bossed around, play what she wants to play how she wants to play it for say, 20-30 minutes or as long as you can manage (or stand! ). Maybe immediately following medicine time? I would not present this as a "reward" (I'm not a rewards person I'll admit) but simply because you love her and want to heal the relationship and break the tension and the arching effects that a daily power struggle can cause a relationship. Soley for the purpose of reconnecting the two of you, and giving her a forum to possibly play through this daily trauma. It may or may not eleviate the power struggle itself, but it will go far allowing you both to heal from it and put your relationship in better standing... giving less power to the power struggle itself.

Some possible scenarios that I've used are the obvious approach, in that you make a crown of paper, place it atop her head and tell the "queen" that you are her humble servant. Tell her that for the next 20 minutes, you are hers to boss around in any way she likes. And then do it. Jump in, be silly (or deadly serious!), fall all over yourself trying to keep up with the demands, etc. Another approach would be to simply say, "For the next half hour, I'm all yours! We're playing what you want to play, how you want to play it. Where do you want me?" The key is, to allow her absolute power (baring any unhealthy or life-threatening acts that is ) and let her KNOW that she is the boss in a very plain and clear way. You OTOH, are in the position of the person without the power. You're likely to see some illuminating things in her play... play is always soooo illuminating if we're tuned in. Maybe she'll want to "feed you the medicine" for a change, or maybe she'll cover this territory in a more subtle way.

I actually try to make special playtime with my son as often as possible whether there are power struggles or not. I believe that this kind of play can actually circumvent the very power struggles that threaten to decay our relationships with our children.

One other thing that has happened with us is that when there is a power struggle going on, DS might take to "creating" more of them in other areas to get his point across. Maybe he'd dump his food more say... if whatever "it" was wasn't actually all that damaging (albeit a little inconvenient), I'd make sure to notice and make a big silly fuss... ACK! You crunched crackers into the carpet! ACK ACK! He thinks, "Mom doesn't want me doing this, but she doesn't have the power to stop me either!" The issue with this approach however is that you have to be in for the "long haul" as it may persist awhile until he's filled up. If you're not up for dealing with it on a daily basis for a good long while, I suggest the "circumvent" route and just play play play!

My two cents. For what it's worth. Hang in there mama!

Em

I think this is extremely good advice. Occasionally there are things that, as much as you try to work with the child and negotiate and accommodate, there comes a point where its so important to their health that it just has to be done. Then your energy afterwards is put into healing and rebuilding.

When I was nine, I knocked out my front tooth tobogganing. There was a lot of blood and I needed emergency medical treatment. I was terrified out of my gourd at the big needle that was coming towards me. Afterwards my parents took me to my favorite restaurant and to see a movie. That helped; it showed they recognized my fear and were sympathetic, but this approach from Embee would have been even more therapeutic and healing.

I would also add to Embee's approach that during play, your DD have the opportunity (if she wants to choose this play) to give you "medicine" using the same method you use with her (a dropper or whatever). Have a similar looking bottle of colored water or whatever and pretend you hate the medicine. You'll see what her fears are (of the medicine itself, of being controlled, or of something you weren't previously aware of). She'll also be working through those fears by being on the right side of the ole medicine dropper this time.

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by Embee

Oh, this sounds tough, mama. An absolute non-negoitable causing a daily power struggle. Power struggles effect the overall relationship between parent and child and I imagine as time goes along, it gets worse and worse. Hang in there!

The only thing I can offer is to remember that this is about power. She doesn't have it here and that is "hard to swallow" so to speak. OTOH, is there something else in your lives where you could extend some power to her? If she was able to regain or obtain power in some other aspect of her life, it might at the very least, create a place for daily healing and reconnection between you and her.

Play is a powerful tool toward this end. I suggest a special "playtime" with her each day that is labled as such. A time when you focus on her, undistracted and undivided, and most importantly, allow her to lead the play: follow her cues and allow yourself to be bossed around, play what she wants to play how she wants to play it for say, 20-30 minutes or as long as you can manage (or stand! ). Maybe immediately following medicine time? I would not present this as a "reward" (I'm not a rewards person I'll admit) but simply because you love her and want to heal the relationship and break the tension and the arching effects that a daily power struggle can cause a relationship. Soley for the purpose of reconnecting the two of you, and giving her a forum to possibly play through this daily trauma. It may or may not eleviate the power struggle itself, but it will go far allowing you both to heal from it and put your relationship in better standing... giving less power to the power struggle itself.

Some possible scenarios that I've used are the obvious approach, in that you make a crown of paper, place it atop her head and tell the "queen" that you are her humble servant. Tell her that for the next 20 minutes, you are hers to boss around in any way she likes. And then do it. Jump in, be silly (or deadly serious!), fall all over yourself trying to keep up with the demands, etc. Another approach would be to simply say, "For the next half hour, I'm all yours! We're playing what you want to play, how you want to play it. Where do you want me?" The key is, to allow her absolute power (baring any unhealthy or life-threatening acts that is ) and let her KNOW that she is the boss in a very plain and clear way. You OTOH, are in the position of the person without the power. You're likely to see some illuminating things in her play... play is always soooo illuminating if we're tuned in. Maybe she'll want to "feed you the medicine" for a change, or maybe she'll cover this territory in a more subtle way.

I actually try to make special playtime with my son as often as possible whether there are power struggles or not. I believe that this kind of play can actually circumvent the very power struggles that threaten to decay our relationships with our children.

One other thing that has happened with us is that when there is a power struggle going on, DS might take to "creating" more of them in other areas to get his point across. Maybe he'd dump his food more say... if whatever "it" was wasn't actually all that damaging (albeit a little inconvenient), I'd make sure to notice and make a big silly fuss... ACK! You crunched crackers into the carpet! ACK ACK! He thinks, "Mom doesn't want me doing this, but she doesn't have the power to stop me either!" The issue with this approach however is that you have to be in for the "long haul" as it may persist awhile until he's filled up. If you're not up for dealing with it on a daily basis for a good long while, I suggest the "circumvent" route and just play play play!

My two cents. For what it's worth. Hang in there mama!

Em

Thank you!!! I will try this tomorrow. I don't like rewards/punishments either but I have been at a loss with this issue. It seems to have come to a head this weekend and I'm really not sure why.

The hard part is getting a definative "medicine time" since she today managed to drag out her morning medicine dose untill 10:30 at night. (she took her night time dose in the meantime but this one....: We were trying something new putting it into a juice like drink that she claimed to like) Once she finally finished it I asked her what she wanted and she wanted the toasted pumpkin seeds so we let her eat as many of those as she wanted. Then I asked if she wanted to nurse. It had been 12 hours. I don't think she had ever gone more than about 7 hours w/o nursing prior. I'm not looking forward to tonight. She usually wakes up several times a night to nurse.

Anyhow. All of this is to say. Again thank you and I will try the play idea out tomorrow.

[Embee]

Hope things are going well!

After leaving the thread, I had a couple of ideas that popped up for "in the moment" that might help. I should add the disclaimer that I've only used these on things that he doesn't want to do, but don't actually taste bad...

If DS and I are having a power struggles say over brushing teeth, it helps to bring in a third party to help (getting me--the fellow power struggler--out of the picture), preferably one of his stuffed animals. The animal starts a dialog with DS like, "Hey DS! I hear you have to brush your teeth at night. That sounds yucky! You shouldn't do that!" DS will always come back with all the reasons it's important to brush his teeth. The toy then is still skeptical but interested and asks DS if he can watch to see if it's yucky or not, etc. DS LOVES to teach, so he'll head straight in and go through the whole routine, teaching the whole way... and giggle while he's doing it.

Another idea is to grab a couple of stuffed toys and start them talking, "Hey, I bet Wisteria won't take her medicine today!" The other is incredulous, "No Way! She's really good at taking her medicine. She knows how important it is even though it tastes yucky!" Just have the toys go on and on and on... arguing. I do this with DS getting dressed sometimes (among other things) and he LOVES to prove the nay sayer wrong.

Like I said, I haven't used it on a total necessity/non-negotiable though, so there could be a tendency of backfire I suppose, but might be worth a shot for those in the moment stresses you'd love to avoid if possible.

Best of luck to you Patty! Hang in there!

Em

[georgia]

Embee, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write those posts---they were really thoughtful I don't have anyone taking any medicine (luckily), but I really gained a lot from them, FWIW. I think playfulness can be such a wonderful connector

Patty, I'd love to hear how it goes...I'll be thinking of you!

[WuWei]

Try mixing with chocolate syrup.

Pat

[Pattyla]

I so wish chocolate syrup was allowed. That sure would make it easier.

Well after a terrible horrible day on Sunday we are better.

I'm not really sure exactly what happened. I know I didn't "win" the power struggle. I'm really not sure what the real issue was, but we are back to where we were before. I read her books while she takes it. It takes some coaxing and I'm getting sick of reading books at mealtimes but I figure if she has to take the medicine I can read her these books to make it easier. (not looking forward to getting rid of that habit once this is all said and done).

I'm trying to be more concious of being playful with her right now too.

Her behavior in general isn't great. She gets watched by my neighbor one morning a week (I watch her girl one morning too). Yesterday instead of calling me when dd was climbing on the table and in general not listening (I had told her to not hesitate to call if dd wasn't behaving and needed to go home) my neighbor strapped her down in her time out chair for a couple of minuites. We haven't ever done TO with dd and don't plan to start. Now I have to talk to the neighbor. Perhaps I need to just keep her with me untill the medicine taking is all over so that her agression can be taken out just on me.

[Embee]

Oh Patty,

I would be upset too about what happened with the neighbor. I can't think of a worse way to handle a child who already isn't feeling quite right... bad behavior is ALWAYS a sign that children are feeling powerless on some level. To strap them down is only to make a sensitive situation escalate and isolate the child all the more. Clearly, you and your neighbor have differing parenting/discipline styles. I hope you were able to talk with her and get some clarification about what you prefer.

I wanted to check in on this thread days ago, but haven't been on-line due to a number of factors. I hope this finds things going a little better.

The best,
Em

[Embee]

Originally Posted by georgia

Embee, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write those posts---they were really thoughtful I don't have anyone taking any medicine (luckily), but I really gained a lot from them, FWIW. I think playfulness can be such a wonderful connector

You're welcome. Lately, I've had to remind myself of my own posts! Frankly, our household could use some more playfulness and lightening up!


The best,
Em

[crb]

I'm curious what people think about just making taking medicine the next "thing" that must happen. I think the playful idea is the best first step, and the playtime at other points are great ideas and I would go there first. I think trying to find the "right" reward is tough - because your daughter just doesn't like the medicine and there is nothing that will make it "worthwhile" for her - but it must be done.
So what if you were in a room w/limited toys or "fun" with her and explained that the next thing that was to happen would be that she would take her medicine. Then she could cry, scream, etc. - you would be there to support her, reflect her feeling back to her, etc., but the next activity would be the medicine (with whatever "chaser" works - food, drink, etc.). You could be the support - the clock is telling you it is time for this. I think there would be big reactions, but maybe the time would cut down - and it wouldn't be a battle between you two. Maybe it is too harsh or would lead to bigger problems? I'm curious about the CL reaction, since I'm new to that concept, but interested in learning more.

[mamaduck]

crb -- I think it depends on the child's personality and age. I really do. Different kids, different personalities, different strategies will work with them. I will say though, if a playful and pleasant approach WORKS, and leaves everyone feeling connected and cheerful, then why NOT go that route?

I know this will stir up controversy -- but when my younger son was between 5 months and 32 months old, he had several life-threatening asthma flare-ups and needed oral steroids. It was hellish to get him to take the meds. I started to get the feeling that all the drama, the anxiety, and the long drawn out sense of dread was the most damaging aspect of the ordeal for him. So at times, I resorted to holding him and simply forcing the meds as quickly as I could, and then nursing him. I admit that it felt wrong, but reducing the process to a matter of seconds really seemed to make his life better.

Also, Patty - is she taking a liquid form medicine? It might *really* help to ask the doctor to prescribe a chewable pill instead.

I really like all of Embee's ideas too. But -- if that doesn't work, another possibility is to be very very rational. And this would admittedly only work on an exceptionally rational 2 year old! But here is a strategy I used with severely brain damaged adults, who functioned on a very low level, when they refused meds:

"Can you tell me what your medicine is for?"
"Effing stupid pills. I'm sick of the #%$@ pills!"
"I know. I don't blame you. I put the pills down, okay? I'm not forcing anything. Now, can you just tell me what the pills are for?"
"They stop seizures."
"Right. So what happens if you don't take your pills?"
"Seizures."
"Then what?"
"Hospital."
"Do you remember the last time you went to the hospital."
"Effing S&*($ doctors!"
"Okay. So -- there are 3 pills in this cup. You know what your options are here. What do you want to do?"
"Gimme the Gd pills."

This worked with my older son at age 2. It did not work with my younger son! But I thought I'd post it, FWIW.

Story books about children who need to take medicine, and why, might be helpful to.

[heartmama]

I know this will stir up controversy -- but when my younger son was between 5 months and 32 months old, he had several life-threatening asthma flare-ups and needed oral steroids. It was hellish to get him to take the meds. I started to get the feeling that all the drama, the anxiety, and the long drawn out sense of dread was the most damaging aspect of the ordeal for him. So at times, I resorted to holding him and simply forcing the meds as quickly as I could, and then nursing him. I admit that it felt wrong, but reducing the process to a matter of seconds really seemed to make his life better.

Nothing controversial about giving life saving medication to a baby What choice did you have?

When ds was 4 his heart wouldn't go back into rhythm during a heart surgery. They had to leave wires attached to his heart which protruded from his chest and attached outside to an external pacemaker. If his heart didn't go back into rhythm his only option was a permanent pacemaker surgery. The treatment? A capsule of medicine he took mixed in a small amount of pudding.

It.Was.A.Nightmare. We did everything possible to make it pleasant~and ds was old enough to understand the importance and cooperate~it was still so awful tasting he puked every time he took it. And he had to keep trying until it stayed down. Can you imagine? I was so distressed I'd have to leave ds with dh so I could cry and hyperventilate in the hallway every few minutes. Upsetting a sick child in order to keep them alive is one of the worst experiences I've had as a parent. Possibly it was worse because ds was so cooperative. It was pathetic. "I' ready to try again mommy!"~after crying and throwing up the first time. I wanted to curl up under a rock.

[mamaduck]

Oh, heart ! Traumatic.