experience with personality disorders?

[Shantimama]

Just curious about other people's expereinces in this area. My mother has borderline and histrionic personality disorders and I have done so much learning about these over the past couple of years. I am also much more sensitive to those dynamics and recognizing the traits (I am not a psychologist so onviously cannot diagnose) in more people.

Do you know people with personality disorders? What has that been like for you?

Do any of you have a personality disorder? What is that like?

[BellinghamCrunchie]

My mother had Borderline PD and I work with adults with mental illness, many of which have an axis II diagnosis (personality disorder).

I find personality disorders completely fascinating and have studied a great deal about them. I have a billion thoughts. Some of the things I've been thinking recently are that personality disorders are a kind of PTSD gone worse. A kind of PTSD that occurs in response to ongoing, lower-level trauma rather than a single, profound incident, and the personality disorder is a response to the PTSD (not the trauma itself - kind of a maladaptive response to a maladaptive response to a maladaptive environment). I've also seen people labeled as personality disordered when their behavior seemed to me to be adaptive to the mental health system or social system that they were trying to negotiate - that is, they are mislabeled. In another system the so-called personality disordered symptoms would disappear, for some people, anyway. In the mental health system strong, assertive women are often labeled borderline, and I think thats tragic. A man doing the same behavior would not be so labeled, in some cases.

I also think personality disorders are a kind of social phenomenon. What I mean is, if you took a person with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder and dropped them into the forest where there were NO other people present, that person would still have hallucinations or other symptoms of psychosis. However, if a personality disordered person were dropped into the wilderness under the same conditions, the symptoms would completely disappear. Personality disorders are only present when other people are present.

In working with people with personality disorders, I'm afraid I have seen very little progress. No treatment seems effective. Our mental health system is really at a loss to help these people. I can imagine the sort of environment which WOULD be therapeutic - it would involve a highly controlled inpatient setting in which the person with personality disorder is not allowed to choose to leave (because one of the problems in treating such individuals is that they consistently choose to leave as soon as they get close to real change), with the adult equivalent of a gentle disciplinary approach that involved no coersive or manipulation, no positive reinforcement or punishment, and consistently, aggressively, and continuously applied unconditional positive regard for the person. In some ways, I believe personality disorders are really attachment disorders. Certainly the people I know who have made progress have done so within a loving, supportive, steadfast relationship - far more so than from counseling or other type of "disassociated" professional help. But then, I have only really seen the extreme cases of PD. I think many people with milder cases are able to see their symptoms and continue therapy even though they are uncomfortable with the resistance they feel.

Personally, being raised by a borderline mom, I find myself having certain issues in marriage that I did not have when I was single. It is typical of borderlines to believe that other people are responsible for their happiness or unhappiness, therefore if they are unhappy, obviously their children or their spouse needs to change, not them. I don't have a personality disorder (I don't think!) but there are times when I am unhappy that I find myself feeling resentful of my DH, as though he should be doing something different, when in reality, he is not standing in the way of me finding my own happiness. Somehow when I'm in a relationship I try less hard to create happiness for myself, believing that now my partner is somewhat responsible for that so I don't have to work at it. I'm becoming increasingly aware of this. I think children raised by personality disordered parents can have incorporated some of their behaviors without actually being disordered themselves, just because they didn't see other, healthier coping strategies being modelled so they imitate the unhealthy ones.

[Shantimama]

Thank you for sharing some of your thoughts. I have wondered some of teh same things myself. Have you read the book "Surviving the Borderline Parent" - it was a huge help to me.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I haven't read that one. Thanks for the suggestion. I've read I Hate You (please don't leave me) and am currently reading The Challenge of the Borderline Patient - I wouldn't recommend the second one as its more academic and boring. Plus alot of journal articles and such.

[Snowdrift]

Opinions are mixed on whether or not I have BPD. One therapist said yes, one said no. Psychiatrist wrote "borderline traits" in my dx records.

In my case it's probably as BC said: a case of PTSD gone worse, plus self-injury which to many people, even professionals, equates with a dx of BPD, especially when it is in an adult.

If you look at my posting history you'll find some sure sign sof BPD in there--lots of deleted posts, many posts which are arguably too personal (like, oh, this one), lots of short-lived but intense crises. Not many fueds, but some interpersonal issues.

I have had chronic issues with depression my whole life. Most notably since age 12, but I have vague memories of self-injurious behavior when I was very young. from the memories I can deduce I was about three feet tall at the time, so quite young. For various reasons my depression went untreated until I began overtly and intensely self-injuring at age 22.

Let me be the first to tell you that anyone who spends ten of their formative years in a suicidal haze is more likely than not to have a few kinks in their personality.

I know that the most important factor in my ability to live some semblence of an orderly life is my intelligence. I am moderately intellectually gifted. This enables me to articulate to myself and others what my thought processes are and to identify where they are broken. Most of the time, at least.

I have a supremely patient husband and a very close friend who struggles wiith various mental health issues who help me through the more intense crisis-y moments. And always self-injury is a last resort. That isn't good, nor is it especially bad. It just is.

One serious problem is that BPD is usually generally understood to be be incurable, something that people fail to overcome. I, at several points in my life, clearly fit the definition of BPD. I don't think I do any longer. Certianly it's not as clear cut. Does that mean I don't have BPD? That I never did? Or am I merely not a good example because I possess better tools than most and therefore was more easily able to overcome it? (Oh, and with the easy--no, not easily, just more easily than those wo never manage it).

Long, long post.

Now, before I post it, these are, or will be once I hit 'submit', my thoughts:

-----begin rambling thought process, -indicates natural, negative thoughts, --indicates purposeful, positive thoughts-------

-they are all going to lose any respect for me, everuone hates BPD-ers.
-ergo, everyone hates me.
-didn't I get in an argument with op about BPD once before? She already hates me.
-I remember some neat posts from th pp in the past. Maybe she'll think this is ineresting.
-maybe people in general will find it interesting. maybe they'll think it's cool i'm posting this.
-nah, they will realize I'd a: religious freak/apostate/cutter/histrionic/insert imprecation here, and hate me.
--wait now, get a grip. neither the op nor the pp know me enough to waste energy hating me.
-clearly, I'm unimportant, insignificant. I'd be better off dead
--Whoa! today is not a good day to indulge in suicidal thinking! I was having a *good* day.
--ok, i better post it bc it may be interesting and if they don't fins it so they won't read or respond to it.
--neat! BPD, depressive, and suicidal thoughts overcome. Antoehr minor victory. Hit submit and smile. Life goes on, and i'm managing to appear normal.
-(but man, I wish I really was)

-------end ramble------

So there it be.
And I managed to post it after all.

But you can sure enough bet I'm gonna come back and check up on it to see if I was right that I'd be hated or reviled for posting it. Not because it is logical that I would, but bc despite all of that, the negative, suspicious, self-loathing, highly defensive, approval-seeking side of me is still much, much more instinctive.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by tie-dyed

-maybe people in general will find it interesting. maybe they'll think it's cool i'm posting this.
-nah, they will realize I'd a: religious freak/apostate/cutter/histrionic/insert imprecation here, and hate me.
--wait now, get a grip. neither the op nor the pp know me enough to waste energy hating me.

I did find your post very interesting.

And I didn't have the energy to hate you, but I found a lot of energy to admire you.

[volcaniclava]

also no hate - found the intellectually articulate stuff interesting because thats what every therapist Ive evr had is suprised about my BPD self. Is this uncommon, i wonder?

[Snowdrift]

Originally Posted by volcaniclava

also no hate - found the intellectually articulate stuff interesting because thats what every therapist Ive evr had is suprised about my BPD self. Is this uncommon, i wonder?

I think this goes back to the slippery nature of BPD: it is impossible to cure, therefore if it is "cured" as defined by symptoms/behaviors no longer being out of control, there must not be BPD.

I think that insight and the ability to work through a dialectic about ones own emotions is essential to learning to live with BPD. If one does not have and is lacking the intellectual ability to develop such insight, then the behaviors can never be managed, because the person will never understand why people are reacting to them so badly and the cycle will continue.

So those of us who can understand it and do learn to live with it are not quite BPD as it is generally understood and dealt with (but not effectively treated, since it can't be) by the mental health community.

So no, I don't think it's rare. I think therapists are more familiar with the other kind, the non-insightful kind bc it is what they have come to expect in the field.

[and thanks for the non-hating vibes. Just another day of learning to live with a brain that keeps trying to kill me. ]

[Shantimama]

Thank you so much for your post, tie-dyed............. and for what it is worth, I have never hated you!!! In fact, when I saw that you had posted here, I looked forward to what you had to say.

I also disagree with the opinion that BPD is incurable. It may not have a high success rate, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who find there way through it all. I have huge respect for peole who have the strength, desire, and conviction to work there way through BPD issues. I am so grateful when I hear of someone who has the resources (intellectual, spiritual, supportive relationships, whatever....) to do it.

I believe that the issues relevant to someone with a personality disorder are different than those of the family members/close friends of someone with a personality disorder. I seem to remember that being something you and I had to work through awhile ago - but I seem to recall that we wound up at a pretty good place.

As I mentionned in the op, my mother has BPD and HPD. I have had to do a lot of personal work to deal with my own issues from being raised by someone with so many difficulties - she had no interest whatsoever in doing anything about it all, and was not fit to raise a child for many, many reasons. Learning about the dynamics of personality disorders has been incredibly liberating for me - it isn't so personal any more. It is devastating for a child to be raised in that situation with no other adults around and with the PD parent turning to her child to get all of those needs met. That said, after a couple of years of finding my way through all of that, I have a greater appreciation and sympathy for what my mother has gone through. She now has advanced Alzheimers and the PD or her personal history will never be addressed - but because of all I have gone through I have a deeper sensitivity to families where a PD is present. I am connected with 2 such families now. My boundaries are much stronger than they would have been a few years ago and I feel like I have better stuff to offer, even though the PD people get mad at me sometimes for not doing "more."

What strikes me every time I meet a family member of someone with a PD is how confused and overwhelmed they feel. Their loved one's behaviour is infuriating and yet they feel sorry for the person and they don't know how to go forward. The toll it takes on everyone involved is enormous. More and more I wonder how things would look if we took mental health as seriously as we take physical health and pharmaceutical care.

My experience with people with BPD is that they have all been extremely intelligent - but most often they use that intelligence to snow other people and keep in control of the situation, not to find healing and change for themselves. They have used their intelligence to keep everyone around them knocked off balance. And considering what I know of most of their personal histories - I totally understand that way of dealing with life. It makes total sense considering the environments the people I know lived in when their personalities were forming. Going back and re-forming your sense of self and the world is no small undertaking, but I sure don't think it is impossible.