My almost 4 year old is refusing to listen!

[ndakkitten]

I think I am posting this mostly just to vent, but I will take a few suggestions as well. I am hoping its just a difficult phase, but when you are pregnant and due in a month, its just that much more wearing on you and harder to deal with!!!

My son is going to be 4 in February, and overall he is a well-behaved child. He doesn't throw screaming tantrums or break things and says "please" and "thank you" for everything. But ever since Halloween, he has had this "attitude". He keeps telling me "No" or "I don't want it!" when I ask him to do things he doesn't want to do, like take a nap, go potty before bed, etc. This doesn't entirely surprise me as I was thinking he is just pushing to see how far he can get. However, I just found out he has been refusing to listen to his teachers at daycare, yelling "No" at them as well, and hitting other kids. None of this has been in his daily reports until the end of last week. Today they told me he threw himself on the floor crying when he got put in timeout and hit a couple of kids. I have caught him grabbing toys away from his 2 year old brother (and have been told he does the same thing to kids at the church nursery). He was playing musical chairs when I came to pick him up from daycare today and I stood and watched for a while. Once he "lost", he tried to shove a kid out of a chair so he would have a spot.

One contributing factor at daycare is that they haven't been able to get him to take a nap lately. I know he acts out more when he is tired and he is exhausted when I pick him up. But he just lays on his cot and fidgets lately. He always used to take a nap no problem before. I also have problems getting him to go to bed at night lately. I put him to bed about 8:30 or 9 (since he doesn't have to get up until 8), and he will probably get out of bed 2 or 3 times saying he's scared (with a big smile on his face, so he's not really scared) or he wants to sleep with me. He will finally go to sleep around 10. Another thing is that he has a history of a food allergy that causes him to break out in hives. We treat this with Benedryl for a day or two, then let it alone. He did break out shortly after Halloween, so I thought at first his behavior was related to the allergy or the Benedryl. However, he's been rash free for a week now.

I have tried talking to him face to face when he does something wrong, but he won't keep eye contact with me even if I hold his face in my hands (they also use this method at his daycare as well as timeouts). When he does throw a tantrum for getting in trouble or losing a privilege, I put him in his room and tell him he can come out when he's ready to say he's sorry and be a good boy. I have also taken things away like movies before bed, certain toys, etc.

Is there some trick I haven't tried so that he will stay in bed (because I think part of his problem is not enough sleep)?? Any suggestions on things I can tell daycare to help him at naptime?? Finally, any suggestions on dealing with his rebelliousness??

[Ruthla]

Allergies CAN manifest as behavioral reactions, even in the absence of a rash. There could be something in his diet that's keeping him from sleeping well, which could be contributing to all the other behaviors.

Of course, much of this could just be a developmental stage and/or he could be reacting to family stuff. He might be nervous about the baby, or unsettled by any changes that are already happening due to the pregnancy. He certainly could be outgrowing his nap.

[velochic]

I really feel that it probably stems from the fact that he's not napping. Even as little as 30 minutes lack of sleep can throw off their personalities. My dd gets cranky and soon behind follows the rebellion when she is sleep-deprived. I do it too, as an adult. I'm cranky when I don't get adequate sleep... which you can tell by my post time, is happening right now.

[mamaduck]

I cannot imagine either of my kids putting up with a nap at age 4! Just would not have happened. I do think there is an unavoidable "adjustment" period when they give up naps that screws with their behavior, but my strategy was to just cope throug that phase and they eventually adjusted. Trying to force naps is really hopeless, once they begin to outgrow them.

My 6 yo. still pops out of bed a couple of times a night. It is hard for him to lay there alone until he falls asleep. Have you tried playing a story tape for him? Or some nice music? Finally -- I think I would go lay down with him. Maybe he is missing you, and needs to reconnect?

When he does throw a tantrum for getting in trouble or losing a privilege, I put him in his room and tell him he can come out when he's ready to say he's sorry and be a good boy. I have also taken things away like movies before bed, certain toys, etc.

I wonder if these approaches are starting to tick him off? Any of these strategies would really make my children angry. The older child in particular, would have behaved WORSE as a result of these responses, because he would have felt too angry and helpless to think about his behavior.

I think is important to remember that a tantrum in and off itself is not "bad" behavior. Its an expression of strong feelings. Its *really* important that someone listen and understand his feelings. You don't have to reverse your decision or give in (I wouldn't,) but by sending him to his room -- you are telling him that you don't want to hear his feelings. What I would try to do instead, is help him to find nicer ways to say what he needs to say.

As far as taking privlages away, etcc... sometimes ths just doesn't work. Often, kids will get angry and look for ways to "up the ante." You end up having to make the "consequences" more and more severe. Its a power struggle. Personally -- I don't do it.

I have tried talking to him face to face when he does something wrong, but he won't keep eye contact with me even if I hold his face in my hands (they also use this method at his daycare as well as timeouts).

This makes me uncomfortable. I DO ask for eye contact, but I cannot imagine taking his face in my hands. That seems like a violation. I would be humiliated and angry if someone ever did this to me, kwim? In my older children's schools, its not okay for teachers to use physical force like this, and I would have a problem with it. I know with smaller children, you often have to touch them in different ways... but this seems like crossing a boundry, imo.

Ultimately, eye contant should be his choice. In some other cultures, making eye contact with an authority figure is actually considerd disrespectful. This leads me to believe that children are capable of listening without making eye contact.

With my older son, at almost the same age, I sat him down at a time when nothing was going wrong, and I asked him how I could get his attention when I needed to know that he was listening to me. I asked if there was a special "clue" word we could use or something. He said that I should just say, "Can I have your attention, please?" And then he would know that he needed to focus on what I was saying. It worked beautifully. Six years later, he still stops and listens when I say, "Can I have your attention, please?"

[ndakkitten]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Of course, much of this could just be a developmental stage and/or he could be reacting to family stuff. He might be nervous about the baby, or unsettled by any changes that are already happening due to the pregnancy. He certainly could be outgrowing his nap.

Well, I am not entirely sure he understands there is going to be a new baby. Every single time I sit him down to tell him he's going to have a baby sister, he just says "OK" and tries to go play with something. I keep telling him there is a baby in Mommy's tummyl, but again, its like its in one ear and out the other. I tried taking him over to his friend Wyatt's house, where they just had a baby a couple of weeks ago, to get the whole "new baby" idea some reality. But he doesn't show much interest in anything but playing with his friend. I have also taken him with me to some of my checkups, but again, no interest.

We haven't set up the crib yet mostly cause we barely use it the first few months because we cosleep. Maybe we will set it up this weekend to help get the new baby concept across.

As for outgrowing his nap, I had considered that idea. However, he is so tired when I pick him up from daycare if he doesn't have his nap that he will fall asleep on the ride home (and its only about 6 blocks). Last night he fell asleep watching a movie while I cooked supper. Normally he insists on helping me cook.

So at this point, I still think he needs the nap. Honestly, missing the afternoon nap could be making him overtired and causing the sleep problem at night. We'll see what luck they have at daycare today and tomorrow.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

My DD is almost exactly the same age as your DS, and she gave up naps months ago. Even at preschool she lays on her mat and reads books rather than sleeping. Given that he is probably overly tired, if he hasn't napped, can you get him to bed earlier? Even if it takes some schedule adjustment on your part - I know that moving bedtime can be really hard on everyone. I definitely find that I have the best bedtime routine when I lay down with the kids until they go to sleep. DH and I rotate who has which kid each night. Especially with a new baby coming, he may really need that connection time.

When my son was giving up naps, he would occassionally fall asleep before dinner on the couch. We always just left him there and he would sleep all night and the next day would be a much better. For a while it happened about once a month or so.

Even if he doesn't really understand the baby's arrival, I'll bet he understands that something is up. Probably you are tired, anxious, physically unable to do some things, etc. All of that can be upsetting him and cause him to act out that anxiety.

The other thing that struck me in your post was telling him he could come out of his room when he is ready to "be good". That's pretty vague for a small child. Can you find a way to be more specific and more positive. E.g. "Act calmly" or "Use a quieter voice" or "Take turns with toys". I find that concrete, specific and positive directions are much easier for anyone to follow.

[mamaduck]

What you are describing -- him being so tired that he falls asleep in the car or durning dinner -- is exactly the "adjustment period" that my children went through when they gave up naps. They did not suddenly stop feeling tired -- instead, they started feeling tired later and later in the day, and if I let them sleep at dinnertime then they had a *horrible* time falling asleep at bedtime. In fact, if they slept even for a few minutes at dinnertime, then I forget about any kind of reasonable bedtime!! What I did was laugh, play, be silly, and whatever I could think of to keep them awake through dinner, and then put them to bed a little early each evening. But I worked really hard at keeping them awake during that rough time between 4pm and 7pm. For about 2-3 weeks, things were hard and they seemed overtired, but then they adjusted to the new schedule and bedtime went much more smoothly.

[Rainbowbird]

Everything Mamaduck said!

Esp. the part about holding his face to make him look at you. That seems very odd for a preschool to do....definitely a violation.

I would also add that it seems like 4 or almost 4 is a real step up in terms of asserting independence, which of course feels pretty much like defiance to the parent. My son will also be 4 in feb. and it's tough right now.

Being pregnant is such hard work with a preschooler in tow. You can bet he knows something is up, although he may not fully understand it. My son was 2 when his sister was born, and his behavior sure deteriorated during the last trimester!

[ndakkitten]

You're not kidding about the hard work!! Its a preschooler and a toddler and I am a work at home mom. My husband has been working tons of overtime lately too. For example, this week he went to work at 8 pm Monday and didn't get home until 8pm tonight (so 48 hours straight). Now he gets 12 hours off (thought he's technically on call still) and goes back for another 24. So most days its just me doing everything. Not easy when you have 3 cats, 1 dog, and 2 fish tanks in addition to the kids!!! Thankfully then its my husband's 3 day weekend starting Friday.

On the positive side, he had a good day at daycare today. I talked to the director (since she was his teacher today) both when I dropped him off and picked him up. She spent a bit of extra 1:1 time with him, which isn't always an option at this size of a daycare (its a big center). She got him to take his nap and he was just so much happier when I picked him up today. He jabbered about all the things he did at daycare today on the way home and was just a happy, perky boy. We played a hat game after supper between me and the boys and they had a blast. I also got him to bed by 9 and he went right to sleep. So I feel much better today.