DS slapped DH and DH spanked - HELP!!

[momma2sageraven]

We both agreed never to spank our 18 month old son, but this morning while DH was changing his diaper & putting his day clothes on, DS whacked DH really hard on the face. DH's reaction was the spank him. I wasn't in the room, but heard the spank. DS was in tears and I couldn't believe what happened.

DH feels that DS shouldn't get a way scott free and isn't sure what a good consequence would be for DS slapping him in the face. Any recommendations??

We're going to be talking tonight about more GD/PD tactics & any help would be apprecated!!!

Thanks mommas,

[Fuamami]

Honestly, I don't think an 18 month old hitting you is very serious, at all. I think you need to lower your expectations, and aside from modeling a gentle touch and telling him in a quiet, serious voice, "No hitting!", nothing else needs to be done. Consequences certainly won't make a difference, in fact they may cause him to hit again as he will no doubt become fascinated with the reaction.

[tiffany21074]

our daughter is 20 months, and instead of starting the "no" trap with everything she does, we tell what she can do. for example, if she hits the dog, we say "nice sheba" and show how we pet the dog nicely. If she hits one of us, we will do the same thing "lets touch mommy nicely" and model it in a calm, nice tone. the pp is right, 18 months is too young to understand consequences like spanking, or any punishment like that. i would definately talk to your hubby about it.

[Storm Bride]

I don't think "getting away scott free" is even remotely applicable to an 18-month-old baby! When my kids hit me (they've all done it), I simply move their hand away, restrain them if necessary (dd tended to launch a series of blows all at once) and say, "be gentle" or "no hitting". I also try to react as minimally as possible. Children that age can be vastly amused by dramatic reactions (such as saying "ow" loudly or making exaggerated facial expressions) and are encouraged to repeat the action to get the same reaction.

Your ds will outgrow this.

[mamaduck]

Your husband ruined any possibility of using it as a teachable moment the moment he hit him back. What can he possibly teach him now?

The only thing to do is move on and prepare himself for how he handle it next time.

[piglet0712]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

Your husband ruined any possibility of using it as a teachable moment the moment he hit him back. What can he possibly teach him now?

The only thing to do is move on and prepare himself for how he handle it next time.

So I'm guessing the old saying "if a child bites you, bite 'em back" is out of the question. I think I've heard that so many times that it's hard not to have that mentality. I think that the slap to DH and DH's reaction wasn't the best thing, but it might have been a reaction due to this old saying. Did DH try to explain that it wasn't okay to do that?

Hmm... maybe if DC hits again (say to DH) then DM should make a big deal at how it hurt daddy and ask DC what should we do for daddy to make him feel better. It'll hopefully teach the child compassion and they'll most likely feel really sorry for hitting.

[nova22]

Originally Posted by tiffany21074

our daughter is 20 months, and instead of starting the "no" trap with everything she does, we tell what she can do. for example, if she hits the dog, we say "nice sheba" and show how we pet the dog nicely. If she hits one of us, we will do the same thing "lets touch mommy nicely" and model it in a calm, nice tone. the pp is right, 18 months is too young to understand consequences like spanking, or any punishment like that. i would definately talk to your hubby about it.

We do the same thing. I have actually held my child's hand and shown him/her how to gently touch my face. My mom bought them the board book "Hands Are Not For Hitting" last year, which they love...it shows different things you do with your hands (building, shaking hands, waving hello...).

I think at 18mo, though, your best bet would be to model appropriate behavior. Unless your child is a prodigy and can already read.

[mamaduck]

Hmm... maybe if DC hits again (say to DH) then DM should make a big deal at how it hurt daddy and ask DC what should we do for daddy to make him feel better. It'll hopefully teach the child compassion and they'll most likely feel really sorry for hitting.

Certainly worth a try. But don't expect an 18 month old to "learn" compassion. Its one thing if the child has a particularly sensitive/compassionate nature. But the vast majority of the time, an 18 month old cannot grasp the concept of compassion. If you think about it for a minute, you can sort of understand how abstract it is to try to imagine what someone else might be feeling, which is necessary for compassion/empathy. An 18 month old has never considered that there might be a point of view other than her/his own.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

Certainly worth a try. But don't expect an 18 month old to "learn" compassion. Its one thing if the child has a particularly sensitive/compassionate nature. But the vast majority of the time, an 18 month old cannot grasp the concept of compassion. If you think about it for a minute, you can sort of understand how abstract it is to try to imagine what someone else might be feeling, which is necessary for compassion/empathy. An 18 month old has never considered that there might be a point of view other than her/his own.

EXACTLY!!!!

You are dealing with an 18 month old! A simple, serious "no hitting" is all the consequence necessary.

[piglet0712]

Well if you teach your child compassion on a continuous basis, they WILL learn it. Come on ladies, really.... we teach them lots of things through practice and by modeling. Why not compassion? My kids are very sensitive and compassionate to others' feelings and I think it's from how my DH and I have modeled this behavior.

Just like putting toys away. If you want to teach your kids to pick up toys after playing, don't you have to model it and practice? Yes, I agree that young kids are very self centered, but I don't agree that they can't learn compassion at a young age. With some guidance how they can think of others feelings. Isn't that why we on MDC try to implement GD right to bring up kids in a loving and supportive environment?

[heartmama]

I'm very glad your dh is willing to talk about this with you later. That shows a willingness to learn another approach. "Hitting back" is ingrained in our culture as responsible parenting. It can be hard to unlearn that.

I agree with pp, that at 18 months, you are not expecting a child to "get it". This is the time when you convey a value, it is not the age when they mature to the point of internalizing and expressing your values. That will happen later.

A simple and serious "Hurts! No hitting" is all you need to say. Also, demonstrating what IS okay is important (gentle).

Remember, you may need to say a hundred "Hurts! No hitting. Gentle hands instead" over the next year before he seems to check his own behavior.

This will pass....

[mamaduck]

Certainly you can begin to teach a baby compassion. I never said otherwise! Just don't expect them to "get it" until they are developmentally ready -- which can be as late as 7 years old. I think its very important not to set ourselves up to be frustrated by having expectations that are not reasonable. Just as with everything else they learn, *readiness* is very critical. (I just don't want anyone to panic or worry when it takes 5 or 6 years until their kids start latching onto the idea of empathy, because that is NORMAL.)

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by piglet0712

Well if you teach your child compassion on a continuous basis, they WILL learn it. Come on ladies, really.... we teach them lots of things through practice and by modeling. Why not compassion? My kids are very sensitive and compassionate to others' feelings and I think it's from how my DH and I have modeled this behavior.

Just like putting toys away. If you want to teach your kids to pick up toys after playing, don't you have to model it and practice? Yes, I agree that young kids are very self centered, but I don't agree that they can't learn compassion at a young age. With some guidance how they can think of others feelings. Isn't that why we on MDC try to implement GD right to bring up kids in a loving and supportive environment?

I would have to argue that compassion and empathy are definitely NOT learnable traits. Wouldn't it be nice if they were? It would make life a lot easier for people with FAS or autism. While people can learn the LOGICAL aspects of compassion, true empathy is, I believe, a biological trait that can not be instilled from the outside. And I think expecting your 18 month old to be truly aware of other's feelings simply because you've modeled that behavior is setting yourself up for struggle.

[piglet0712]

Well I guess that my kids are flukes (DS 3 and DD almost 2). They in my eyes are compassionate.

[momma2sageraven]

Thanks ladies! We had a great talk last night & DH has vowed never to let it happen again. He and I were both spanked growing up and it's hard to reprogram yourself, but so worth it for future generations.

I think DH has unrealistic expectations for DS and we're working on that. I feel like I've said "No hitting" "No biting" "No pulling" already a thousand times, but I'm ready to say it more.

Thanks for all your understanding and thoughs. I'll be looking at this thread quite often in the next month or so till it all sinks in :

[georgia]

So I'm guessing the old saying "if a child bites you, bite 'em back" is out of the question. I think I've heard that so many times that it's hard not to have that mentality. I think that the slap to DH and DH's reaction wasn't the best thing, but it might have been a reaction due to this old saying. Did DH try to explain that it wasn't okay to do that?

Even if DH had tried to explain to ds why "it wasn't okay" he still spanked him and this would have negated any explanation, IMO. I'll hit you to show you hitting is wrong? Guess I'm just not clear what you were trying to convey

I feel like I've said "No hitting" "No biting" "No pulling" already a thousand times, but I'm ready to say it more.

You could also consider saying "gentle" or what you would like him to do instead of what you don't---it would at least give you a change There's the 500 Rule: It often takes 500 times for mama to say something before it actually sinks in for the child. Whether this is true or not....it at least helps my expectations

[moonpie's_mama]

whoa. we believe spanking is wrong, but spanking an 18-month-old is WAY wrong. that is still a baby! dd hits dh and i all the time, i mean alllll the time, especially when something is happening that she doesn't approve of , like a diaper change. not getting spanked is not "getting off scot free". i'm glad your dh agreed it wasn't the right way to handle the situation!

[jul511riv]

dd was in a biting phase, which she revisits every now and again (she's 21 months now) and my approach has always been the same. "No biting. You can bite a pillow, you can bite the blanket, you can bite a toy, you can bite the spoon, or your cup, but you can NOT bite mommy and daddy because it hurts." Sometimes I'll add "we don't hurt you. Please do not hurt us." which really reinforces in the moment that we DON'T hit or hurt her!

Once she understood the concept of getting hurt (slamming finger in door, falling and hurting herself and attaching that to the word "ow") and we could verify that with her using the word "ow" we began to use it too. As in: "that does "ow" to mommy and daddy. It hurts. You don't like to have an "ow" do you? Neither do we." and then I reapeat the options of what she CAN safely bite.

Now she will come at us with mouth open to bite (and I notice that this USALLY coinsides with teeth coming in, actually and redundantly enough) and I will say "no, bite the ________" (fill in the blank, what ever is closer, like "pillow") and she does and it is over. She'll take a few bites and then bite some other inananimate object and then it's done.

MUCH more effective than the ONE TIME my husband just "reacted" and hit her on the hand. She just did it again a second later, and my husband was in tears he felt so bad that he had reacted without thinking. First and last time we ever did THAT hitting method. Thankfully it was more like a quick slap on the hand and not hard or painful. She didn't even seem to notice (for better or for worse) but boy did we feel shitty.

It's important to just be like "okay, we made a mistake" and then move on. Don't beat yourself up about this (no pun intended). We are all tryingour best. Be gentle with yourself as well and good luck!

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

You might want to point out the utter illogic of hitting as a way of teaching a child not to hit. Sometimes the clarilty of it stated in those terms is a real eye opener.

I would also not be too hard on your DH. For many of us, being hit strikes an almost-hard-wired response to defend ourselves and hit back. I'm guessing that he didn't "spank" in a measured, thoughtout response but rather lashed out in defense and simply hit. I'm not saying its the right response or that it should happen again but I am saying that its not the same un-learning process that learning not to spank is. For your DH, he needs to prepare himself for what he will do the next time DS hurts him. Because chances are there will be many more times as its just part of toddlerhood.

I struggled with this reaction mightily during this age of both of my kids. I found that the only SAFE way for me to handle it was to say nothing at all, but to put the child down quickly and walk away. I couldn't even wait to articulate "no hitting" or "gentle" -- if I didn't get myself out of range or the child out of range in seconds, then I couldn't help lashing out. This may be the best your DH can do to. Its probably the best place for him to start.

[jul511riv]

good point. I agree.