Low grade in music class

[Twocoolboys]

My ds got a "2" on his report card for a category under music called "sings in tune/matches pitch". (The grading scale is 1-4, with one being little or no proficiency and 4 being excellent.) The rest of his report card is full of 3s and 4s.

Is it possible for someone to be taught to sing in tune? I know that I was never able to learn this. I was very clearly told that I could not sing as a child, but, thankfully, I didn't receive any grades on it. I always thought that music class was more for teaching kids to enjoy and appreciate music, as well as expose them to different ways of making music. Not to judge them on an ability that they may or may not have been born with!

If it is possible to teach someone to sing in tune, how would a teacher go about teaching this to a 2nd grader, especially when that 2nd grader is in a class full of 22 other students?

I'm just sad that this may teach my ds to not be enthusiastic about music at all. I love music and was in band, even though I couldn't sing. He's never once, in the three years he's been at this school, talked about music class or his music teacher. He talks about art and gym and even library, but just does not mention music unless I drag it out of him. Then, the most I get is "it's ok". I could go on and on, so I will stop now.

Hopefully, someone will have some insight for me. I want to write a comment back on the report card, so I need some help figuring out what to say. I don't want to be rude, but I want to make it clear that I don't think it's fair to grade the students on this ability or lack of ability.

But, if I am totally wrong here and this is somethng that a 2nd grader can learn in school, then, someone please tell me. Also wanted to add that music has always been a low interest thing for him, so I was really hoping that music class would introduce him to the FUN aspect of music.

[lolar2]

My DH is a music teacher, and specifically has taught ear-training for a few years before his current job. It is possible to teach someone to match pitch, but as you said a teacher with a room full of 22 second-graders probably won't be able to do that! Even with more intensive private work it can take a long while. Also I was able to start matching pitch when I was 2, so I could tell if others were or weren't, and my experience growing up in children's choirs taught me that some kids who can't do it at 7 can do it at 17-- could be developmental I guess.

If he wants to know more about music and just finds this teacher discouraging (and God knows some music teachers are Simon Cowell types!), he's certainly old enough for some sort of private instrument lessons. Flute might be good, it teaches breath and diaphragmatic control which could help with the muscle-memory element of pitch-matching, and learning to tune it would help with the hearing part of it. Also there are children's music classes, Kodaly, Orff, and Dalcroze being the most famous, which help with ear-training. But if he just doesn't find music all that interesting, it might simply not be his thing.

If you put it to the teacher-- "How can he work on learning to match pitch at home, since he isn't making enough progress in school?"-- that might make the teacher think a little harder about how appropriate that particular rubric is for a second-grader. OTOH, the teacher might be getting some pressure from higher up to grade on "objective" criteria, and how DO you do that in a second-grade music class?

[mommy68]

Wow, I can't believe that. I thought children that age were graded primarily on how much they participate and ofcourse behavior in the classroom (not on talent). I would be upset if my child received a low mark. It's not a required course at that age is it?

[bobandjess99]

I'm so tone deaf it's not funny.

In high school , i had a 4.0, tons of AP classes, etc...and took choir...it did NOT list ability to sing as something that was required..it was an open elective, and attendance, participation and effort were supposed to be what the grade was determined by.....I went to every class, sang every song, never disrupted class, learned all the "book-learning", took all the written tests.......and then at the end, the etacher gives us a "singing final" and of course, I was completely unable to sing the fricken tune. I got a D in the class. My parents FLIPPED (on the teacher/school, not on me), went in, made a HUGE stink about it, etc, and I ended up with like a B...which still syucled, because I had an A on all the written work, etc......

the CRAZY thinkg ius...they never even TAUGHT us how to match pitch/carry a tune...it was all "okay, we're going to sing this..." and then we would sing it.....we rehearsed, but NEVER once had one-on-one instruction...I KNEW i wasn't singing the right sounds, but had NO CLUE how to make the right sounds come out of my mouth...and NO ONE ever taught me...!!! including the teahcer.....and yet, at the end of the year, I was somehow supposed to be able to sing in tune?

This was at least in high school.....

I can't imagine them making an issue of it for a 2nd grader?

Anyway...I weould simply fall back on the concept of .."does the teacher TEACH the children, one-on-one, how to sing the right notes??"

If the answer is no, then i would strenuously object to my child being GRADED for something they ADMIT the teacher DOESN'T TEACH!!!

[stik]

I would guess that the teacher is being pressured to grade on objective criteria. Which is ridiculous, because it's second grade, and the "objective criteria" available for music are often entirely reliant on aptitude, and not on anything the student has the power to change in a 30-minute class once a week.

I would give her a call or send an email asking about your concerns - what are the goals of the class? Is your son being introduced to the fun aspects of music? Does he seem to enjoy it? Is he being encouraged to consider taking up an instrument when your school offers the opportunity?

[Twocoolboys]

Thank you everyone for all of your great input! I am going to think about what I am writing and may even e-mail the music teacher directly.

I kind of think it would be similar to the gym teacher grading on athletic ability, which is so varied amongst the kids. Thankfully, he grades on following directions and sportsmanship, not ability.

[lolar2]

It's not QUITE the same as grading on athletic ability, since pitch-matching is technically something that can be taught, but if they are not specifically working on pitch-matching as a separate skill, there's no reason to grade on it. It's basically grading on something that is not being taught (unless they really are drilling on it, which is possible but not likely).

Also, not being able to match pitch and being tone-deaf are two different things. Being tone-deaf is rare, though not unheard of, and means that you don't even realize you are not matching pitch. Being unable to match pitch but knowing that you aren't quite there is different.

[aran]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

Anyway...I weould simply fall back on the concept of .."does the teacher TEACH the children, one-on-one, how to sing the right notes??"

If the answer is no, then i would strenuously object to my child being GRADED for something they ADMIT the teacher DOESN'T TEACH!!!

ITA.

If the teacher isn't teaching that as part of the class, and giving each kid feedback on how to improve and something to do to practice and work at improvement, then s/he is grading on abilities that the children brought with them into the class... a poor grade would be a reflection on the teacher, not the student!

[jennifercp8]

I hope you get some good answers from the music teacher - as a music teacher myself, I think she just may be in a place where she has to grade on some sort of ability and not just participation. It stinks, though. I hated having to do that - especially to my fragile-ego'ed middler schoolers struggling through voice changes.

Do you sing often? The bulk of the problems with my students comes from the amount of singing they are doing in a day - once they begin singing more often, they are more able to match pitch easier and seem to enjoy it more. This was so true - especially with the boys.

And I agree with a PP - maybe get him started on an instrument. Like piano, guitar, or something like that. I would find a teacher who specializes or has experience with working with young children so that she can light that spark for him.

ETA: Is she teaching solfege and sight-singing? If she is, then *technically* the student is responsible for being able to sing the correct pitches.

[Twocoolboys]

Okay, this is what I wrote on the comment card:

"I would be curious to see something in writing about the goals of the music class. We've never gotten any kind of communication from the music teacher. I'm surprised to see that the students are graded on ablility to sing in tune and match pitch. What is being done to teach this? I hope that music appreciation and the fun aspect of music are also being taught. It would have been nice to have a specific comment from the music teacher."

The reason I asked for something in writing and mentioned not ever getting any communication from her is because she is the only teacher that never sends anything home. The art teacher sends home letters once or twice a quarter detailing what the class is working on at that time. Even the library teacher sends a letter home at the beginning of the year letting the parents know what to expect. We've never gotten anything like that from the music teacher.

And, of all the teachers that give grades on the report card, she is the only one that has never written a comment about my son. Even the gym teacher writes comments.

The past two years, my son has received ok grades in music. So, to all of a sudden not, I'm just a little surprised. (But, he was never graded on ability to sing before - this is new.) Not that it's the end of the world - it's not. But, I just want to know what they do in music class, especially since it is the only class he doesn't talk about.

Jen - I'm curious, what is solfege and sight-singing? He is interested in the guitar, so that would be something for us to pursue with him. He's only 7 though. Do you think that is too young for formal music lessons?

[lolar2]

I think the letter you wrote sounds good and is clear as to what you are asking.

Solfege is singing exercises with the do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do stuff you remember from The Sound of Music. Sight-singing is looking at a page of music and singing it just from the page, without having heard the music ever before. Solfege is a tool to help with sight-singing.

It's individual when a kid is ready for formal lessons. Some are ready at 3, many at 6, most by 9 if they will ever be ready. Anything later than 9 will usually involve some catching up, except for classical (opera-style) singing, which for a boy obviously doesn't work too well until his voice has changed.

[jennifercp8]

I agree with Lolar - good letter! I hope you get some response from her and some more answers. It is always good to have an open line of communication.

And like she posted, solfege is a system of learning to sing music with symbols. You can't press a key on your body and play an F#, so a man named Zoltan Kodaly (pronounced Ko-die) came up with a system of solfege.

Here are the hand symbols that are used
http://www.classicsforkids.com/teach.../handsigns.asp

Some teachers are very Kodaly-based, and others focus more on Orff (Carl Orff was a German composer who developed a different method/style of teaching students) and those teachers mainly use those big xylophones you sit and play on the floor with two mallets. The bars are removable, and are pitched in a nice range for young children to sing along to.

http://www.classicsforkids.com/teach...nstruments.asp

I agree that now might be a great time to get him going with an instrument, if he is showing signs of being interested. I would try to find a guitar teacher who teaches him how to read music, and not just guitar tab. Guitar tab is great for learning really quickly, but it will not help him in the long run as he develops his skills.

I'm sorry if I told you stuff you already knew, but hopefully this will help out other people, too.

[PiePie]

i agree with you that it's not fair to grade kids on musical ability or lack thereof, and i think the letter you wrote looks great. my question is, how does he feel about the 2? i think it is important for you to communicate to him that you don't think it's a fair grade and/or that you don't care. i got low grades in music for the same reason, but my parents made it clear that it was not important to them...

[Hera]

My dd is just about 7 and hasn't been able to carry a tune in a paper bag until recently. I enrolled her little sister in a Music Together class, and she wanted to come too, so now we all go. This is a program that is really for babies and preschoolers, but since it involves whole family participation it has been really good for her. She can sing whole songs from memory, in key, and it has only been a few weeks. I'm sure we've laid a foundation before, my dh is a jazz guitarist and plays all the time, but for some reason this really clicked with her. It's supposed to be a pre-suzuki program, when that basic musical competence has been reached then they are ready to learn an instrument.

I think the music is available for purchase without taking the class, but I would suggest that just making an effort to learn some songs and sing them together informally would be helpful. With a guitar, even. The program is interesting in its philosophy though, that basic musical competence can be taught, but it is sort of like learning language. Aptitude is more likely to increase if the skills are acquired during a certain learning window. (I'm actually not so sure about that part of it, I tend to believe that almost anything can be learned at any time of your life, you just need to have the time and motivation to devote yourself to learning it.)

That being said, I agree that it is ridiculous to grade a school music class on ability. The better thing to do would be to grade on participation and on theory/ written work and then make an effort to communicate with parents in a less "written in stone" sort of way about the possibility of extra instruction outside of class for whatever reason.

If he is having trouble with matching pitch, I'd actually try to find a guitar teacher who will teach him to play by ear at least at first. Learn a few chords and be able to play some songs. If he's motivated, get him reading music after he is comfortable with his instrument. You don't teach a kid to read at the same time you teach them to talk, after all, and right now at least according to this one music teacher, he isn't speaking music yet.

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by jennifercp8

And like she posted, solfege is a system of learning to sing music with symbols. You can't press a key on your body and play an F#, so a man named Zoltan Kodaly (pronounced Ko-die) came up with a system of solfege.

Here are the hand symbols that are used
http://www.classicsforkids.com/teach.../handsigns.asp

Actually Guido d'Arezzo came up with solfege in the 11th century, various people modified it over the years, and Kodaly added the hand signals in the 20th (Guido had just pointed to places on his hand instead).

[Music-mommy]

The fact that they grade ability to match pitch in Grade 2 is utterly ludicrous. Unfortunately, many people who teach music and other things in school are usually not so qualified.

I am a professional musician, have a graduate degree in music, studied ear training, sight singing extensively, and also have a degree in music theory. I have taught all levels from 3 year olds to teens, to adults.

Matching pitch has nothing to do with musical ability, it is a skill, like recognizing a colour. Only thing with matching pitch is it would be like showing a 2nd grader a color then asking him to mix colours to create the same color again.

It is very difficult. Also, to match pitch to a piano or any instrument for that matter is MUCH more difficult than to match pitch to another voice.

I have a choir and I accept anyone who wants to sing. Many of whom say they are tone deaf. And yet 99% of them can sing on pitch now.

If you want to help him learn to match pitch, sing him a note and tell him to sing it back, or if you have a keyboard, play 3 notes like C,D,E and see if he can sing them back.

The first step is to get him to match to your voice, then to go to an instrument.

Basically when you match pitch, you have learned what muscles to use, how tight to make your vocal chords to make a certain sound. The same as if I said life your arm to 90o... not only do you know what 90o is, you know what it feels like to have your arm up 90o to your body.

Make sense?

It's very sad that there are so many bad music teachers out there, traumatizing our children to feel less than at such a young age when it's only because the teacher does not understand how to teach that the children cannot learn properly.

[Twocoolboys]

Originally Posted by Music-mommy

If you want to help him learn to match pitch, sing him a note and tell him to sing it back, or if you have a keyboard, play 3 notes like C,D,E and see if he can sing them back.

The first step is to get him to match to your voice, then to go to an instrument.

Basically when you match pitch, you have learned what muscles to use, how tight to make your vocal chords to make a certain sound. The same as if I said life your arm to 90o... not only do you know what 90o is, you know what it feels like to have your arm up 90o to your body.

Make sense?

It makes total sense. But, neither my dh nor I can carry a tune. But, I do get what you are saying. The grandparents have a piano, I could try that out to see if ds can match the notes. But, how do I know when he is matching the notes? I would not do so well in this music class either - lol.

I have not heard back from the teacher yet. I am very curious to read her response though.

Someone asked a few posts back how ds feels about it. He doesn't care, really, and I am not making a big deal out of it at all with him. I asked him a few questions, like what do you do in music class? And, does she ever work with you or anyone one on one to help you match the notes she's singing? He is very tight lipped about it all. His reponses were just one word answers - "no". It is not a strong interest area for him. He loves loves loves art class and excels in it and talks about art class a lot. Music class is definitely the opposite of that. I'm kind of sad because I did love my music class when I was in elementary school. I still remember some of the fun songs we sang, word for word. I know all the words to 'Thank God I'm a Country Boy' by heart, still - lol! I know, strange choice for music class, but my teacher would teach us the popular songs of the day.

I just want him to like music. So, I have been making more of an effort to have music playing at home and to sing along with the radio, etc. I have always done this, but go through phases where I just don't think of it. I'm making an effort to think of it daily now. And, he is mildly interested in the guitar. So, I think guitar lessons are in his future. If not this school year, then soon after.

Thank you everyone who responded to my questions. I know so little about this topic. I learned from everyone's posts. This, to me, is what mdc should be about - mamas truly helping other mamas. Thank you for showing me the best of mdc!