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Useless vaccines: a USA and NZ history lesson.

post #1 of 159
Thread Starter 
In an old senate hearing in the USA, is testimony which bears thinking about quite seriously.

Useless vaccines.

Sold for profit, and NOT for the health of the people.

I've only scanned five pages for you, but read them all carefully and think about this for a moment.

Why do we think this could only happen "back then"?

Why do mothers think that doctors in high places are "better" and care more, now, than they did before 1972?

Anyone who knows the history of vaccines the way I do, knows this is only the tip of the iceberg, but its an iceberg that people need to have a close look at.

Look at this, and think about it. I've scanned a few pages and put them on photobucket. Bear in mind that this senate hearing was hundreds of pages long, and is no longer in print:

Title page, just so you know what and where:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img457.jpg

List of those 32 useless vaccines sold solely for profit:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img453.jpg

Descriptions of them, and what they were used for.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img454.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img455.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img456.jpg

Why do you think you never knew these vaccines had been used in the past?

How many of your parents had these vaccines and its not in their records?

Would you call this experimentation, or exploitation?

For whose benefit?


..... And by the way, for the really bizarre, the Appendices of Parliamentary Journals in New Zealand has listed for use in 1911, not only a Streptococcus vaccine but also a Staphylococcus vaccine and an Acne vaccine.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img503.jpg

I suppose you could say that we are all a bit behind the times don't you think?
post #2 of 159
Just started looking, but this one caught my eye:

#5 product E - mixed vaccine no. 4 with H. influenza

Was this a flu vax or maybe a Hib vax?
post #3 of 159
Hmmm, many of the vaxes are listed as being indicated to produce immunity or to treat an existing illness. Is it even possible for a single vax to do both?

What would infectious asthma be classified as? Maybe a name for pertussis back then or something else?

So many questions are raised from reading the bit you scanned MT...

I also noticed just how many vaxes there were for respiratory infections, complications from colds, streptocci, even staph... so many of these had multiple ones, makes me wonder if these so-called vaxes contributed to antibiotic resistant strains... And I wonder how the poor people who got these "miracle" treatments - as I'm sure they were called, did health wise.

So this begs the question, how many vaxes that are in use today still fall into this "useless" category? : Although we'll never know I'm sure...
post #4 of 159
Thread Starter 
Okay, I've uploaded another three pages, because I think these are important, and I should have put them up the first time.

These vaccines were all listed as ineffective.

The speaker here is Senator Abe Ribicoff (D-Conn) on March 30, 1972.

Unfortunately when I read I highlight and underline, and tag, which some people hate. But that way, I don't have to wade through untold stuff later.

But for the purpose of this exercise, read the highlighted bits, and underlinings.

If you find it hard, download these onto your computer, and use the windows viewer with the magnifying glass. The dpi should be big enough.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img504.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img505.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f7...ion/img506.jpg


I should have put these up the first time, as it clarifies a few things.

Sorry.
post #5 of 159
Makes me wonder how many more people I've loved and cared about have been harmed by our government.

I'm sorry, I never thought I'd say anything like that and I've never been one for gov't bashing but the more I learn, the more frightened I become.

I thought I was living in a democracy.

(I say this not only in response to what you posted MT, but also because this is still running around in my brain as well.
post #6 of 159
Quote:
Specifically, the report indicates that there are thirty-two bilogic drugs
or vaccines on the market today that are ineffective. All of these drugs have been on the market for at least 10 yrs; some have been sold for decades. DMS has allowed all of them to remain on the market, even though some of them can cause serious side effects.
Hmmm, wonder how many of these are drugs that were "grandfathered in" when the FDA was created?
post #7 of 159
Thread Starter 
Actually, the FDA was created as a result of the DBS scandal, and exactly this hearing.

The FDA was simply the DBS renamed, because many personnel just transferred buildings.

Just recently the FDA renamed one of its floors into some vaccine overseeing agency, the name of which I can't recall, since I don't think its of any significance.

Shuffling papers, titles and letterhead, is purely for public consumption and does squat to actual day to day reality.
post #8 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annikate View Post
I'm sorry, I never thought I'd say anything like that and I've never been one for gov't bashing but the more I learn, the more frightened I become.

I thought I was living in a democracy.
Well, so far you sort of are living in a democracy, because you pay your taxes, and you can obtain congressional records from the Congress Library for nothing.

The reason most people don't know this, is that they don't know what to look for. If you do, then a whole new world opens up. One in which you realise that you are kept in the dark, were kept in the dark, and are NEVER told everything you need to know to make informed choices.

In some ways, even though your parents lived in a democracy, the reality was that they lived in a sense, under martial rule. Information was on a "need to know" basis. The hype that surrounded the SALK vaccine was amazing. I'm just going through another congressional record on that. If you knew the whole story from the congress records on how useless that vaccines was, and showed it to your parents, they would be mortified.

They would wonder HOW they could have been conned.

For the record, that congressional record is:

H.R. 105-41 and its called Intensive Immunization programmes and was on May 15 and 16, 1962.

Library of Congress controll Number is 62061522

Now, I defy anyone to read that record, and have a normal blood pressure for a week.

Quote:
(I say this not only in response to what you posted MT, but also because this is still running around in my brain as well.
Yes, and that is worse, because its behind closed doors. At least in the past, things were part way open, even if they relied on no-one knowing where to look to see the buried skeletons.
post #9 of 159
all I can do is shake my head.......
post #10 of 159
Awesome. Thanks for digging this up I am so saving it for the future.
post #11 of 159
Thread Starter 
Spy, I've had it for over 15 years (it's mentioned in JALP in passing) , but never had the technology to scan it, and the know-how to put it on photobucket until this year.... nor any reason. People here hadn't got to the point where I felt they were ready to really study or really question deeply, the intent of agencies like the old DBS/FDA.

And probably, most people still aren't.

It's a different step mentally, going from the question "Does X vaccine work, and what are its risk/benefit equations?" to thinking about "Can I really trust all these people who say they wouldn't use a vaccine unless it was safe, effective and good for me?"

For some people, that sort of question falls into the conspiracy theory, and I'm not into conspiracy theories, unless you mean the deliberate attempt to keep reality quiet.

This isn't conspiracy.

This is reality.

Reality sitting on a bookshelf that few people know how to find.

When you do, it opens up a whole new world.

This senate record that I posted abstracts, details the whole sordid saga about Dr Anthony J Morris, and Dr Bernice Eddy. Right down to the enth degree. It also details other key DBS scientists who were harrassed to the point of leaving, who came back and gave evidence to prove that Morris and Eddy were only some of many, but were the only two who had the energy and drive to stand up, stay within the organisation and kick up a stink until the public got to know the facts.

About 6 years ago, when there was another mass exodus from the FDA, I asked Dr Morris why it was, (as he'd been to a public meeting and met some of the people behind the scenes). His reply was that it was the same old story, except whereas in his day, it was hard but possible to dissent, now it was not. If you did, your career in any field, or outlying branch of medicine was finished and you were blacklisted permanently.

This is what is meant by scientific academic freedom. Forget democracy for the people.

Look at whistleblowers in any walk of life. What happens to them???

Why???


Bottom line is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$
post #12 of 159
Thread Starter 
So now, here is a series of thinking-out-loud questions.

These useless vaccines were up and running by the mid forties. They were both given to prevent, but were ALSO given to anyone to treat a cold or signs of infection. Okay?

Now ask yourself this.

What do you know about provocation polio and what triggers it?

How many of you know that injections of local anaesthetic, antibiotics and vaccines can trigger paralytic polio in anyone incubating it, who has an infection, which if they are NOT given an injection (or injury, or exhausted in some way) would not progress to polio?

What are the first signs of polio? A cold?

What might have been the action of a doctor in those days if your nine year/16 year old/ wife old had the signs of a cold...?

To say "Here dearie, I'll give you an injection to help you get over this..." The early 1900's were the era of the needle, and if you've ever seen the needles, talk about huge, and dreadful looking. Some consider them works of art. Go to a medical museum and have a look

Many people in their 80's can tell you stories of those needles. And maybe even some younger than that.

So if in the mid forties, and fifties you got a cold, what might a doc do? Give you a useless vaccine to treat the cold?

What say it was polio, not a cold, what then?

How many people who landed up in iron lungs, were asked if they'd been given an injection of any kind prior to that, say... for a cold? Or for whatever reason.

Furthermore, you know that anyone without tonsils has a 600 times chance of getting polio, right?

And you know that by the 1940's tonsils was de rigeur, and by the fifties, pretty much routine, right? If you don't, look it up. Google it. In the forties and fifties, removing tonsils were a surgeon's bread and butter.

You all know Dr Benjamin Sandler's work, don't you? About the relationship between the way sugar and refined carbs bombs in both the immune sytem and blood sugar, making the body acutely susceptible to polio-type viruses?

Now, can you join a few dots?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So the vaccine might have ended up being a "have your cake and eat it" scenario. If you get in really early and give an ORAL vaccine that works, you can make a child immune to polio BEFORE the child gets old enough to live on sugar pops, get a few from the raft of 32 useless vaccines, and have their tonsils removed or maybe get stressed, injured etc... and as a result of those things might end up with paralytic polio .

If you have a vaccine that's given BEFORE any of that can happen, you remove the "consequences" of both what doctors do, and lousy diet. You get in first. Get immunity.

Then you can still do all those things and get away with it. And many people will definitely consider that such a theoretical hypothesis, were it to carry any truth, was the best solution to the problem..

Because if it is true (and I believe it is) it does solve a problem, no?

What is the problem?

The problem was, that up until the era of needle everyone for everything, polio was endemic not epidemic. That mean, most people just got immunity and never paralysis... that it was a normal commensal in the throat that usually did didly squat... and even at its "worst" was still far less infectious than say, measles. Polio with definable symptoms increased in numbers hugely at a time when the use of sugar-pop mania, tonsillectomy, bottle feeding, useless vaccines, and needles of many sorts were the popular way to treat things. THAT was a big problem IMO.

Dr Sandler got the sack for telling people that eliminating sugar and refined carbs would reduce the numbers of polio. He proved that correct, and wrote a book about it.

What would have happened to anyone implicating useless vaccines to treat minor infections as a "cause" of some of the pre-vaccine or even post-vaccine polio cases?

The use of the oral vaccine was and is a simple solution to a complex problem and seems logical, except... for those who want to know why, and who want to understand, and who want to make informed choices to understand what they are going to do and why they are going to do it. Or not, as the case may be.

What happens in your head when you consider that a whole lot of what you believed was the natural consequences of a virus unaided by man, was actually partly or even majorly the result of a whole lot of preventable factors?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those of you who have followed the career of Dr V Wyatt, will know of his research on polio in India. You will know that he has talked in medical literature, (and to me personally), about how in India doctors have for many years, used unsterile injections of drugs to treat fever or infections. They know that the drugs are useless, but people believe in needles.

He told me that in his many years studying polio in India, the majority of polio was provocation polio always followed injections. Only a smidgen of that ever got through into the medical literature. Naturally.

But for the record, he's provaccine. I guess he can't see any other way to save kids from polio when doctors won't let go of their beloved needles. Problem is, the polio vaccine in India doesn't work very well.

The reason for that, is that lack of sanitation, food and clean water, mean that huge numbers of enteric viruses are going through the gut all the time, and they interfere with the polio viruses and the vaccine doesn't take easily. But if kids do get it to take, and have a subclinical infection, that might show as a cold, and go to a doctor who gives them an injection, the vaccine virus can result in paralytic polio, or a wild virus if they are carrying that. The living conditions in India and Africa make it hard for those countries to have their cake and eat it as well.

That is why many Indian children have had 36, or even more doses of OPV....
post #13 of 159
I am familiar with Morris and Eddy story, it has been well outlined in our friend's book . It's the actual list of what was on the market that long ago that is... well, hilarious. You know, Hib vaccine is currently marketed in Russia as a vaccine for 'acute and chronic resperatory infections, otitis media, bronchitis, etc' - almost word for word 'product 21' and onwards, plus a menintigis thrown in for good measure. And Staphylo-strepto serobacterin - what a joke...
post #14 of 159
Thread Starter 
There would be teenagers these days, who'd give their eye teeth for the 1911 Acne vaccine, don't you think?
post #15 of 159
So much vaccine history has been glossed over.

Take a look at this slide presentation on the FDA (CBER) website:

http://www.fda.gov/cber/summaries/cent092302pp.htm


Senator Ribicoff's concerns about vaccines are not mentioned. His special concern, according to the site, was insect parts in foods.

As his subcommittee had been investigating federal regulation on vaccines, blood banks and drugs for several years, I think he would be just slightly more concerned about vaccines, don't you?
post #16 of 159
Thread Starter 
That is a really interesting page, Sherlock. Thank you for finding that. It's gone into my hard drive as well.

In answer to your question, yes, Ribicoff was a WHOLE LOT MORE CONCERNED about vaccines than body parts in food ..., but would FDA want to really admit, in 2002, that the history of vaccines was so utterly sordid?

I see they mentioned the vaccines on that page, but did they bother to mention that they were U-S-E-L-E-S-S???. Of course not. I mean, vaccines are now THE very important commodity for the future, that must be kept safe from any whiff of taint.



So we see them sweep thousands of pages of evidence under the carpet with a patsy sentence
Quote:
I mentioned earlier that the continued licensure of bacterial vaccines approved many years earlier came under fire. Among other things, the DBS was criticized for not having conducted a review of the safety and efficacy of its licensed products equivalent to that which had been instituted by the FDA's Bureau of Drugs.
doncha love the Among other things ... the guts of the matter swept away in three words ....

They say their main crime was Not having conducted a review of the safey and efficacy??? Blimmin eck. If you read that Hearing, DBS KNEW full well that many of their products were USELESS, and that their testing was a JOKE!!!! The review was the afterthought, not the main course of the meal. FDA just got a case of indigestion on the message

So typical.

But at least the FDA did mention that Ribicoff was cynical about DBS becoming FDA, as he considered that tantamount to giving a blind man a blind dog.

Quite prophetic actually.
post #17 of 159
Subbing...
post #18 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird25ca View Post
Hmmm, many of the vaxes are listed as being indicated to produce immunity or to treat an existing illness. Is it even possible for a single vax to do both?
When you read medical history, you find that actually they didn't know very much about anything in those days, but they thought they did.

If it were so, don't you think they would still be doing it today? I'm sure though, they will reinvent the wheel and get around to expanding their use of the needle again

Quote:
What would infectious asthma be classified as? Maybe a name for pertussis back then or something else?
Shall we flip a coin on it, or run a poll.

Prize = a chocolate fish.

Quote:
So many questions are raised from reading the bit you scanned MT...
Yup...

Quote:
I also noticed just how many vaxes there were for respiratory infections, complications from colds, streptocci, even staph... so many of these had multiple ones, makes me wonder if these so-called vaxes contributed to antibiotic resistant strains... And I wonder how the poor people who got these "miracle" treatments - as I'm sure they were called, did health wise.
Particularly as I suggest above, that the increase of these vaccines are at the same time as the huge increase in paralytic polio.

Quote:
So this begs the question, how many vaxes that are in use today still fall into this "useless" category? : Although we'll never know I'm sure...
Well, we might. In about another 50 years mebee....
post #19 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
Dr Sandler got the sack for telling people that eliminating sugar and refined carbs would reduce the numbers of polio. He proved that correct, and wrote a book about it.
This might be of interest. A few years ago, I bought a set of The Bookshelf for Boys and Girls (USA 1963). In the cooking section in volume 5, 'Things to Make and Do', there are several recipes. The recipe for Cocoa for two people says, " 4 tablespoons of sugar", and, for lemonade for 4 people, "1 cup of sugar".

That seems a HUGE amount of sugar to me.
post #20 of 159
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