Michael Richards Video - Page 8

[chellemarie]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

You avoided the question.

That's because the question is TOO VAGUE. I believe I just said that in my previous post.

Not every victim of abuse responds and behaves the same way.

In your scenario, WHO is making fun of the victim? Someone who knows the victim is a victim? Also, the original remark was made regarding someone who was trying to get out of hot water by saying, "Wait! It's not my fault. Someone did something bad to me so I have a free pass to do bad things!"

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by chellemarie

You don't get to dictate the nature of my response. That is the single most offensive thing directed at me that I've ever read on MDC.

I've seen more offensive things in this thread directed an entire races and abuse victims.

Originally Posted by chellemarie

You refuse to provide the evidence you insist exists. Your question is too vague to answer. Who is making fun of the victim? Who knows the victim is a victim when they make the joke?

Better question, what makes it ok to create jokes that knowingly hurt another individual just because they are not around to hear it?

Originally Posted by chellemarie

Can you be sure every victim is equally sensitive to the same jokes and wisecracks and criticism?

Enough of them are, so does it make more sense to make jokes abuse victims and their circumstances? or refrain from doing so?

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by chellemarie

That's because the question is TOO VAGUE. I believe I just said that in my previous post.

Not every victim of abuse responds and behaves the same way.

In your scenario, WHO is making fun of the victim? Someone who knows the victim is a victim? Also, the original remark was made regarding someone who was trying to get out of hot water by saying, "Wait! It's not my fault. Someone did something bad to me so I have a free pass to do bad things!"

They made fun of a scenario, not a victim. Making fun of a scenario can have the same affect as making fun of the person themselves. Cracking a joke about a priest victimizing a person is never ok. Period. And those who think it is ok, are not only vulger but hurtful to those who would be affected by it.

[chellemarie]

This is apparently how this works:

You say something.
I comment.
You reply and pretend you didn't say exactly what you said but something kind of like it that makes you believe you're right.

But I think you're forgetting your words are up there. You said, "ridiculing a victim." I responded and you said, "They made fun of a scenario, not a victim."

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by chellemarie

This is apparently how this works:

You say something.
I comment.
You reply and pretend you didn't say exactly what you said but something kind of like it that makes you believe you're right.

But I think you're forgetting your words are up there. You said, "ridiculing a victim." I responded and you said, "They made fun of a scenario, not a victim."

I said making fun of a scenario is ridiculing a victim


SOOOOO


This is apparently how it works


You make a claim that I am wrong
Refuse to back up your claim that I am wrong
Change the subject slightly
I respond to everything you have said
and then chop up what I say and misquote me.


Sound about right?

Right.


Which is what I knew you would do in the first place.

[chellemarie]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

I said making fun of a scenario is ridiculing a victim

No, you didn't. You said:

Originally Posted by Yoshua

Are you seriously telling me that you believe that ridiculing a victim or making jokes out of the circumstances will make the victim more willing to come forward?

We have participated in very few threads together, Yoshua. It's very unlikely you'd know what I would do.

Furthermore, initially, I didn't claim you were wrong. I asked for you to provide evidence for things you were stating as fact.

[Yoshua]

Originally Posted by chellemarie

No, you didn't. You said:



We have participated in very few threads together, Yoshua. It's very unlikely you'd know what I would do.

Furthermore, initially, I didn't claim you were wrong. I asked for you to provide evidence for things you were stating as fact.

'making jokes out of circumstances'


you quoted me and ignored it more than once now.

[flyingspaghettimama]

Hey hey, it's everyone's favorite MDC game of "Who's the Victim Now?"

FWIW, I am an abuse survivor and I am most heartily unoffended or intimidated by Mama G's joke. I do not equate mockery of those who use abuse to excuse inexcusable behavior with mockery of abuse itself. It's funny, we usually only see instances of this with men in the public eye. I hated his "I couldn't help but send emails to underage pages, because I was abused by a priest! And therefore, also, NOT REALLY GAY!"

I can't just go knock over a liquor store, run down a granny in my Pinto, send vulgar PMs to catholic school teachers, throw headless chickens at lesbians, insult all races other than my own, and then say but, but, I was beaten by a liquor-store owning "ethnic group A" granny school teacher. Because people would call BS on that.

It's crappy to be abused. It's even crappier to use abuse as a self-exculpating tool for manipulating public sympathy when you've done something very, very wrong.

[Brigianna]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

Hey hey, it's everyone's favorite MDC game of "Who's the Victim Now?"

FWIW, I am an abuse survivor and I am most heartily unoffended or intimidated by Mama G's joke. I do not equate mockery of those who use abuse to excuse inexcusable behavior with mockery of abuse itself. It's funny, we usually only see instances of this with men in the public eye. I hated his "I couldn't help but send emails to underage pages, because I was abused by a priest! And therefore, also, NOT REALLY GAY!"

I can't just go knock over a liquor store, run down a granny in my Pinto, send vulgar PMs to catholic school teachers, throw headless chickens at lesbians, insult all races other than my own, and then say but, but, I was beaten by a liquor-store owning "ethnic group A" granny school teacher. Because people would call BS on that.

It's crappy to be abused. It's even crappier to use abuse as a self-exculpating tool for manipulating public sympathy when you've done something very, very wrong.

I knew I loved you.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by chellemarie

This is apparently how this works:

You say something.
I comment.
You reply and pretend you didn't say exactly what you said but something kind of like it that makes you believe you're right.

But I think you're forgetting your words are up there. You said, "ridiculing a victim." I responded and you said, "They made fun of a scenario, not a victim."

YES! You hit the nail on the head!!

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

I can't just go knock over a liquor store, run down a granny in my Pinto, send vulgar PMs to catholic school teachers, throw headless chickens at lesbians, insult all races other than my own, and then say but, but, I was beaten by a liquor-store owning "ethnic group A" granny school teacher. Because people would call BS on that.

YOU HAVE A PINTO??????? :

[artgoddess]

Did anyone see his so called apology on Letterman the other night? DP had saved it on TIVO to show me last night so I think it aired two days ago.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by joesmom

YOU HAVE A PINTO??????? :

As long as the thread has been completely derailed I'd like to take this opportunity to brag about the bitchin tricked out AMC Pacer I used to be seen cruising around town in, back in the college years.

[Vellorian]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

throw headless chickens at lesbians

Sorry to break into your conversation, but this comment really caught my attention.

Do people really do this? Why? What is the connection/purpose? Or were you just saying something off-the-wall?

[Momtwice]

Pacers? Pintos? You guys are giving me flashbacks!

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by Vellorian

Sorry to break into your conversation, but this comment really caught my attention.

Do people really do this? Why? What is the connection/purpose? Or were you just saying something off-the-wall?

Makes about as much sense as racial slurs and running down grannies with my Pinto, eh?

[Vellorian]

One of the things I've been wondering about is the permanance of such a thing as this. We've seen two major meltdowns from celebrities in the recent past. Both of them are making overtures to apologize and rectify, but how far does that really go?

I mean, once someone is decried as a "racist", are they a "racist" forever? Or can they truly become "enlightened"? Will they always wear the "Scarlet R" on their chests? Or can they somehow become redeemed of their anti-social stigma?

More specifically, will Mel Gibson and Michael Richers always be considered "racists" for their outbursts? Or can they one day perform enough penance to redeem their honor and wipe clean their sin?

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by Vellorian

One of the things I've been wondering about is the permanance of such a thing as this. We've seen two major meltdowns from celebrities in the recent past. Both of them are making overtures to apologize and rectify, but how far does that really go?

I mean, once someone is decried as a "racist", are they a "racist" forever? Or can they truly become "enlightened"? Will they always wear the "Scarlet R" on their chests? Or can they somehow become redeemed of their anti-social stigma?

More specifically, will Mel Gibson and Michael Richers always be considered "racists" for their outbursts? Or can they one day perform enough penance to redeem their honor and wipe clean their sin?

That is a good question. I guess the problem is that one never directly suspected them being racist or anti-semitic before their outbursts, but apparently they held some ugly feelings beneath the veneer. So once they've blown their cover, as it were, and then supposedly said "sorry" and atoned, how do you know if they're lying or not? So much of being a celebrity is obviously a public manipulation of image, it's fairly difficult to discern a celebrity's sincerity... or not. I guess some people will give them the benefit of the doubt, probably those who were fans before. The rest of America would probably say...feh.

It's the same with any celebrity - Michael Jackson, PeeWee Herman, OJ Simpson, and so on. You mess up big, you usually mess up for good, and become the untouchable.

[Vellorian]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

I guess the problem is that one never directly suspected them being racist or anti-semitic before their outbursts, but apparently they held some ugly feelings beneath the veneer.

With Mel, I know many people speculated about his feelings based on those of his father and how closely alligned he is/was with him.

I'm curious if there is a difference between "racism" and "anti-semitism"? I notice you separated them in your comment. I don't know if you did that because you see them as different things or if you were simply being a good writer and expounding with detail. (As an amateur writer, I find myself doing that sometimes.)

[lotusbeans]

Originally Posted by Yoshua

Way to many definitions flying around. Lets consult Mr. Dictionary..

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
rac‧ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[lotusbeans]

Originally Posted by mama ganoush

maybe now we know the real reason there was never any black people on Seinfeld.

There was that guy Elaine was dating whom she thought was AA (he thought she was Spanish). He ended up being white. There was also the very funny lawyer - I can't think of his name, but he said the famous, "Did I tell you to use a balm?" quote.

And, umm... I think that's it.

So at least diverse as Friends.

(Of course, we don't know that this had anything to do with Jerry Seinfeld, but it makes me think Richards was probably quite comfortable on the set.)