Delaying and child's fears of shots

[momofthecloth]

Please pardon or redirect me if this has been recently discussed! I really do plan to read the archives!

With our decision to delay our DD's vaxes (now 18mo), and our recent search for a new non-harassing pediatrician, one point has been made repeately to me by several pediatricians which I'm considering:

~It's going to be awful when we do start up vaxing b/c she's older and is going to SCREAM every time she is brought in the office. Expect it.

One ped. (that I liked) said she strongly felt it was best to not spread them out (one shot every few weeks) but do a few at a sitting, because of this. She is fine with delay, but "for the child's sake" this is best.

I understand her point, and I'm not for "torturing" my child of course...but isn't it STILL best for reaction-observance purposes to spread them out? Is it a matter of weighing out how awful the experience is going to be with DD's fear of the doctor etc. vs. what's really healthiest for her?

What am I in for?!?!? Is it really gonna be AWFUL?

Thanks!

[momto l&a]

I still remember as young child and being drug in to have my shots.

Such an awful memory to have of a persons childhood IMO.

Edited to add that those memories are before the age of 5 and I am now 32 years old.

[Plummeting]

Well which of the vaccines are you planning on giving? There aren't going to be as many to do now that she's so big. For instance only one dose of Hib vaccine is "needed" if given after 15 months. Are you going to do chickenpox? Hep A? Hep B? Hep A is only a mild illness in children, often asymptomatic. Hep B is transmitted in the same way HIV is, so if you're not worried she's going to catch HIV, then you don't need to worry she's going to catch Hep B. If you wanted to give that and you aren't afraid she'll catch it, you could wait until she's a teenager for the 3 dose series. That would eliminate three shots right now.

Regardless of what your doctor says, it is safer to spread them out. More uncomfortable for your child? Probably. Of course, let's be honest here. If you got several at once, she'd probably feel a lot sicker than if you do them one or two at a time. So she'll be more afraid of the needles and have to feel that little pain, but she won't be as sick for the few days after. Plus, what if she did react to one and you didn't know which one? What if you thought it was DTaP, but it was Prevnar, so you skipped the DTaP next time, but gave her Prevnar again? Then what?

[mamakay]

When they get a little bigger they can get them in the arm, too, which doesn't hurt nearly as bad.
Which ones are you going to get?
What age are you wanting to start at for which ones, and why?

Here's what I think can be scratched of the list without any worry:
Hep A---very mild disease
Hep B (maybe give much later...as in teen years)---basically an STD or IV drug use issue
Mumps---vax isn't working, anyway
Chickenpox (or give in early teens)---self explanitory
Prevnar---not an issue after infancy
Hib---not an issue after infancy
Influenza---vax doesn't work
IPV--- (is there really any rush on getting that one?)

[spero]

Originally Posted by momofthecloth

... one point has been made repeately to me by several pediatricians which I'm considering:

~It's going to be awful when we do start up vaxing b/c she's older and is going to SCREAM every time she is brought in the office. Expect it.

One ped. (that I liked) said she strongly felt it was best to not spread them out (one shot every few weeks) but do a few at a sitting, because of this. She is fine with delay, but "for the child's sake" this is best.

It does not surprise me in the least that a pediatrician will stoop to this (emotional blackmail) level to get you to vax your kid.

In fact, I'm quite certain the AAP recommends it.

"for the child's sake", my ass.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I think no matter what you do kids will be scared of shots crap I am 34 and I am scared of them they hurt. Anything that hurts IMHO you should be afraid of.

[CrazyCatLady]

I've seen babies as young as six months hold their legs to their chest and scream when going back to a doctors office that they previously got shots at. They know, from a very young age they know. Just because they can't verbalise it as well as an older child, doesn't mean that it doesn't scare them just the same. It's just as traumatic for a baby as it is for an older child. So I wouldn't base a decision about delaying on that. Plus your ped provides a crappy arguement. If you follow the recommended schedule, you're never really "done" with shots. They keep adding more and more shots and boosters for kids.

[scheelimama]

My dr's have all given me those same arguments and although I went in prepared, I always forgot my arguments and succomed. If I'm blessed with more babies (surely I will be!) I promise to do more research and go in more armed next time and not allow their emotional blackmail to get me!

That said, what about the argument that if I forgo the Hep B, they will ultimately end up with more shots, since they have the 6-in-1 shot (or something like that) now. Is it Prevnar? I got that argument and ended up not foregoing the Hep B with either of my children.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by scheelimama

That said, what about the argument that if I forgo the Hep B, they will ultimately end up with more shots, since they have the 6-in-1 shot (or something like that) now. Is it Prevnar? I got that argument and ended up not foregoing the Hep B with either of my children.

It's called Pediarix. There will soon be other combination shots on the market that do not contain Hep B, if you want to do combined shots. The question is just whether or not your pediatrician will carry them. Pediarix contains DTaP, Hep B and IPV. Pentavac should be out eventually, it will contiain DTaP, Hib and IPV.

But anyway, I would never choose to do a vaccine I didn't want just because it would mean my kids were getting less shots. That's my only response to that argument. I'm not really sure what there is to say to it. If a parent decides a certain vaccine will do more harm than good, then how can they give it? To me, it would be like drawing blood or something. If DD needed labwork done, she might hurt while they were drawing blood, but I'd get it done anyway because it was necessary. I wouldn't skip the blood draw just to avoid the pain. And if I decided she needed some vaccines and she needed to NOT have some others, then I'd get her what I thought she needed to be healthy. I wouldn't give her vaccines I thought were bad for her just to avoid a few moments of unpleasantness.

[mamakay]

I wouldn't give her vaccines I thought were bad for her just to avoid a few moments of unpleasantness.

I agree.
And on the other side, I'm not going to put my child through anything painful unless there's a really good reason, either.
I originally set out planning on getting everything, but just delayed...but I had every intention of getting them all, though, eventually...because of some vague reasoning about herd immunity and vaccines generally being good...but the more I look at it all in perspective, the more totally and completely unnecessary more of them seem.
And I *do* believe in herd immunity, although that only "works" for a few diseases, and there are some diseases that the "herd immunity thing" is actually happening in a negative way with (like less circulating chickenpox among children causing people of all ages to develop shingles, as one example)...and I do think vaccines can be good, too...but so many of the vaxes just appear to be scams.

[momofthecloth]

Originally Posted by Melaya

If you follow the recommended schedule, you're never really "done" with shots. They keep adding more and more shots and boosters for kids.

Great point.

Originally Posted by Plummeting

I wouldn't give her vaccines I thought were bad for her just to avoid a few moments of unpleasantness.

Another great point. Man, you guys are good. Can I just bring you along to the pediatrician's office? Like scheelimama, I know I need to be *firm* in what I believe when I go in there. I don't want to expect the worst...but just be prepared for it.

Mamakay, thank you for your list there. GOSH I need to go read those archives!! I need to be able to explain *why* if asked...b/c the "I read something on the Internet" line just doesn't getcha very far, LOL!

Thank you gals, keep your thoughts coming!

[spero]

Originally Posted by momofthecloth

I need to be able to explain *why* if asked...

Actually, you don't have to explain anything to a ped.

It's YOUR child, YOUR decision, and really none of THEIR business why. It is your RIGHT to refuse any vaccinations. Also, "explaining" yourself to a ped just paves their way to argue and scaremonger and emotionally blackmail you, IMO.

At least - that's been my experience.

[momofthecloth]

Oh, I know I don't have to explain anything to my pediatrician, but considering that we're starting new with a new doctor, and that my other daughter has medical issues that far outweigh the vax issue, it's wise for me to "get off on the right foot". I don't want the fact that we're delaying vax to be the focus, but rather my other daughter's treatment.

Also, I meant that I should know the reasons 'why' for my own self...which I'm still figuring out! Not to mention poor DH who is graciously and supportively trusting my judgement on vaxing.

[mamakay]

If you need any help finding info on anything let us know.

Hep A, Hep B, and IPV should be the easiest ones to figure out if you're looking for ones to push to the back of the list.

[lyttlewon]

Just a thought but couldn't they use a topical numbing cream before giving the shot? THey gave me one when they gave me an IV for surgury when I was 14. I had to apply it a couple hours before I went in. They ended up having to do the other hand anyway because there was a valve but the first poke didn't hurt at all.

[mamakay]

Yeah, they can, but I'm not sure it would really help all that much with an injection.
It might help as a placebo effect more than anything, though...and placebo effects can be weirdly effective.

[momofthecloth]

Actually we have some (EMLA cream) that I've used for injections before, and for ear piercing (which really helps!). Of course some vaxes really burn when injected so it won't help with that, just the initial prick. My RN MIL says it's important to massage the injected site to 'distribute' the drug; says this helps soreness. (that had nothing to do with what we were talking about = that was a freebie! )

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by mamakay

Yeah, they can, but I'm not sure it would really help all that much with an injection.
It might help as a placebo effect more than anything, though...and placebo effects can be weirdly effective.

Is an injection more invasive than an IV?

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by lyttlewon

Is an injection more invasive than an IV?

Yeah, some of those shots have something in them that burns pretty darn bad. The piercing of the skin is nothing compared to the "injecting" part. (or maybe it's the trauma to the muscle tissue itself when the liquid is squirted in?)

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by lyttlewon

Is an injection more invasive than an IV?

I think they hurt more, because there's nowhere for it to go. In an IV, it goes directly into the bloodstream and moves right along. I've never felt any pain with an IV, other than the initial needle stick to get it started, of course, but I've had some pretty friggin painful injections in my lifetime.