How to help ds deal with agressive classmates in K ?

[jazzharmony]

My son is 5.75yo and in Kindergarten. It seems he is surrounded by kids who are constantly touching, pushing, shoving, punching. It's like a natural thing for these kids. I just don't get it. My child is very aware of his own space and feels stressed, of course, when there is so much violation of that space.

Apparently the teacher doesn't do much. I have told my son to look the offending child in the eye and say loudly "DON'T TOUCH ME", "STOP", etc. And if that doesn't work, to talk to the teacher. It doesn't appear to be working. We were at a school event today and my husband saw our son being shoved by another child sitting next to him. He said ds told him to stop and it did not work. Tonight ds told us it never works and that the teacher sometimes puts kids "in a chair" but nothing changes. I know they need more adults to a class so children can have more supervision, intervention, and actual instruction on how to respect each other's bodies.

I am so sad that my child trusted what I said and tried it and it hasn't worked. I am at a loss. I am going to speak with the principal but when I asked about the low student/teacher ratio, I was dismissed so I don't expect much from her.

What can I do to help my child before he gets to the point where he fights back physically? I am afraid that he will turn to that if nothing else works.

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[trini]

I am so sorry your ds is dealing with this. I am a kindergarten teacher. I hate that this happens to children. I try to be very vigilant, but they outnumber me and there is SO MUCH that happens that I do not see or hear. You are right, smaller class sizes would help the situation. Unfortunately, class sizes are only getting larger most places.

It is not clear from your post whether you've talked to the teacher or not. Definitely do that. Sometimes I am unaware of a problem a child is having (or unaware of how it is affecting the child) and I am grateful when parents let me know.

Children shoving others is simply unacceptable. Sometimes there are "invasion of space" issues that happen as a result of so many bodies in one room, and sometimes things happen that are perceived as aggressive when they are not, but that does not seem to be the issue with your ds. This simply SHOULD NOT be happening to him. The teacher needs to put a stop to it (or at least effectively intervene when it happens), and give your ds a strategy for dealing with it. (Permission to move to a different space?)

One of the main focuses in my classroom is respect. Your son is not receiving that and I sincerely hope that the teacher listens and helps.

[jazzharmony]

Trini, thank you so much. I am going to approach my son's teacher with this. We have a conference in a few weeks but maybe we will get in touch with her before that.
My stomach was in knots today.

[Flor]

Yes, talk to the teacher. Is it a new teacher? It sounds like a classroom management issue. I haven't taught k, but I have taught first and that environment would be unacceptable to me. However, if it truly is an issue of classroom management, I'm not sure how to deal with it. If I were you, I would ask to observe the class and perhaps observe another class or two with different teachers and see if there is a difference.

[Mizelenius]

That is scary. When you were at the school event, where was the parent of the child who pushed your DS?

I agree with the pp/KG teacher-- sometimes it is hard to watch everything that goes on. (I've had KG classes with 31 students and no aide . . .: )
However, the way I had things structured the children didn't have the opportunity to get in each other's way often OR they were just too involved with their work to consider getting physical.

I would certainly talk to the teacher, as suggested, and if possible, spend some time observing the classroom. I would document how many times it happened, what happened, and when it happened (what activities were going on at the time). If you can't do that, get your DS a notebook and ask him to make some sort of symbol (a face or something) to mark everytime it happened. Let the teacher know what he's doing so that he always has access to the notebook.

When you talk to the teacher, emphasize how serious you see this issue as being-- it IS serious.

[Treasuremapper]

How awful. I agree with talking with the teacher.

We did have a situation where the same little boy was hitting my daughter over and over again, with little intervention by the adults. My daughter is taller and stronger than that little boy, but she cowered when he would attack. So my usual peace loving instructions changed, and I told her to turn around and chase him and hit him as hard as she could if he ever did it again. : This was in preschool, not kindergarten.

All she had to do was turn around, roar, and chase him. No hit ever connected, and that little boy never tried to hit my daughter again. He picked on other victims. So the problem was never really solved -- and I think that was to that little boy's determinent, not to mention to the detriment of the other children he was hitting who were smaller.

[shelbean91]

Definitely talk to the teacher first. I had a similar situation w/my dd- a boy was threatening to punch her. I think he was just trying to play in an inappropriate manner, but she didn't feel that way. I spoke to the teacher, she said she hadn't seen anything, but that boy did have a tendency to play too rough and in an inappropriate manner. This was the first couple of weeks of school. So, she knew of a problem, I talked to her to let her know it was worse than she realized, she dealt w/it and I've not heard anything about it since.

Of course, if the teacher can't/won't do anything about it, call the principal.

[jazzharmony]

Thank you all - these are great suggestions. It is very helpful to hear your stories.
Like you, inezyv, my husband is starting to think he should teach our son to fight back. That feels wrong on many levels to me. Also, because there are so many kids who can't keep their hands to themselves in this class, it would just turn into an all out war of fists. I want my son to stay gentle and kind but he is beginning to change.

[Treasuremapper]

Originally Posted by jazzharmony

Thank you all - these are great suggestions. It is very helpful to hear your stories.
Like you, inezyv, my husband is starting to think he should teach our son to fight back. That feels wrong on many levels to me. Also, because there are so many kids who can't keep their hands to themselves in this class, it would just turn into an all out war of fists. I want my son to stay gentle and kind but he is beginning to change.

I know, it felt wrong to me on lots of levels, too. But it didn't feel as wrong as letting it go on and on -- that really felt funny. BTW, her school situation has totally changed and that kid is no longer in her class. I have seen that child elsewhere and he is now gentle and even gracious -- just a passing phase.

[lolar2]

There are some good martial arts moves to block punches without fighting back.

[jazzharmony]

Originally Posted by inezyv

I know, it felt wrong to me on lots of levels, too. But it didn't feel as wrong as letting it go on and on -- that really felt funny. BTW, her school situation has totally changed and that kid is no longer in her class. I have seen that child elsewhere and he is now gentle and even gracious -- just a passing phase.

I'm sorry - I realize I must have sounded critical. I think your situation was very different from ours. It seems my child is surrounded by ruffians. The class is full of kids who just don't know how to respect others. I just don't want mine to end up being like that. It's like an every man for himself mentality.

In your case maybe your daughter did need to physically stick up for herself.

On the martial arts, my brother and I both took Karate from a very young age and I have offered to take a parent/child class with my son but he says no. Maybe I will ask again in the spring. It still would not address our situation. It is not a bully who is targeting my child, it is a class mentality and just a difference in parenting and in school philosophy maybe.

[joensally]

I think there's a difference between shoving and pushing because they're all 5yo and lack social skills and aren't receiving sufficient guidance in using words, or being kept sufficiently apart (I'm thinking about the hordes at the 75% off table at a sale, shoving etc, and it just becomes a group dynamic), and punching and what is just unfettered aggression. Although, if a lot of kids are responding to the claustrophobic feeling of not enough space, imagine how the kids who are already sensitive/reactive must feel. Some kids that are aggressive are doing it because they're overwhelmed, and if they were crying instead of hitting we'd feel bad for them.

Now that I'm done empathizing with the kids in this environment, it needs to change. This is the opportunity for them to start the journey in public school of learning virtues, personal conduct and social responsibility in that environment (ie away from parental guidance or higher ratio environments like ps or daycare). I'd go to the teacher, then the principal, the the PAC/PTA until there was movement in this. There should be "0" tolerance for this, and kids should be supported in finding other ways to interact with each other.

If your son "defends" himself in this situation he may find himself in trouble
. And he's 5 - the adults around him should be supporting all of them to figure out how to get along. I'm betting there's other parents feeling the same - is there an opportunity to chat at p/u and drop-off? You might find some support there to move the teacher/administration.

[Treasuremapper]

You didn't sound critical at all. In our case, the teacher and her aides were really dropping the ball and it was going on all the time and was a bullying situation. There were a lot of changes that had to be made, and it was inappropriate to ask a three or four year old to handle it.