I want to start selectively vaxing my 5 year old.

[boston]

I have no idea how to do this. She's only had one tetanus shot, once. (I think it also contained diptheria.)

I'm interested in the Dtap (or Tdap, whatever it is now.)
How many doses would a 5 year old need, in order to be vaccinated?

[Blue Dragonfly]

I liked this info:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html

[boston]

Thanks. I have this article. I'm looking for slightly more specific information about starting at or around age 5. Has anyone done this and care to share about it?

[mamakay]

What are your reasons for wanting to start vaxing?

I'm going to begin selevtively vaxing at some point later, and here's what I'm thinking:

1) I think I want to do Rubella, just because I would never forgive myself if my son caught it and gave it to a pregnant woman. Rubella is one of the only diseases "herd immunity" seems to work for without any weird negative effects happening. (erm...except the whole natural immunity in childhood thing, which would be ideal, but I think we're past a point of no return on that one.)

2)Maybe Measles. I'm not afraid of the disease hurting my own child, but I do think "herd immunity" is protecting immunocompromised kids here..and measles actually could be globally eradicated....I think.

Mumps portion isn't working, so scratch that component..it's a mild disease anyway.
Hep A- too mild to vax for
Hep B- I'll reconsider that one when he's a teen
DtaP- vax doesn't work (pertussis portion, at least. I might want to get it for the tetanus part later...but tetanus being so rare, I'm not in a hurry)

Hib and Prevnar- "herd immunity" doing really bad stuff with these ones, causing new bacteria to emerge as pathogens...and the vax only has a big positive effect in infancy, so scratch those.

Chickenpox- will do a titre check around age 10ish, and vax then if not immune.

IPV- No point.

[boston]

Originally Posted by mamakay

What are your reasons for wanting to start vaxing?

I would like some "protection" against Pertussis. It's the only disease that there's a vaccine for that actually worries me. My kid is about to enter a large public school next year.

Originally Posted by mamakay

1) I think I want to do Rubella, just because I would never forgive myself if my son caught it and gave it to a pregnant woman. Rubella is one of the only diseases "herd immunity" seems to work for without any weird negative effects happening. (erm...except the whole natural immunity in childhood thing, which would be ideal, but I think we're past a point of no return on that one.)

That's interesting. My plan with Ruebella is to wait until my daughter hits puberty, and then have her get the vaccine, should she not have natural immunity by then. I think as adults, women ought to be responsible for their own health during pregnancy, not the children in their community. When I was pregnant I got checked to see if I was immune. I wasn't. Despite being "up to date" on my shots. I still had a healthy baby, thankfully.

Originally Posted by mamakay

2)Maybe Measles. I'm not afraid of the disease hurting my own child, but I do think "herd immunity" is protecting immunocompromised kids here..and measles actually could be globally eradicated....I think.

I'm not afraid of measles. Both my parents had it as kids. I haven't heard of it being dangerous.

Originally Posted by mamakay

Mumps portion isn't working, so scratch that component..it's a mild disease anyway.
Hep A- too mild to vax for
Hep B- I'll reconsider that one when he's a teen
DtaP- vax doesn't work (pertussis portion, at least. I might want to get it for the tetanus part later...but tetanus being so rare, I'm not in a hurry)

I have given my daughter one vaccine, and that was Tetanus. We live in Maine. It's too possible that she'll be barefoot and get a puncture wound. And the treatment for that is --a tetanus shot. One that is worse (tocicity-wise) than the vaccine. So I got her the vaccine.

Originally Posted by mamakay

Chickenpox- will do a titre check around age 10ish, and vax then if not immune.

I have to find out how the chickenpox thing works. At what point does chickenpox start becoming more dangerous? That's when I'd want to get her vaccinated, if she's not naturally immune.

Originally Posted by mamakay

IPV- No point.

Yeah, I don't see this as a concern, unless we travel to a place where Polio exists.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by boston

I'm interested in the Dtap (or Tdap, whatever it is now.)
How many doses would a 5 year old need, in order to be vaccinated?

The CDC recommends five (5) doses of DTaP. The first three doses of are the primary doses and anything after that are boosters.

Time interval between doses for a five year old child:

Dose 1-2: four weeks
Dose 2-3: four weeks
Dose 3-4: six months
Dose 4-5: six months

Are you looking to get the CDC recommended number of doses or the number of doses required for school entry in your state?

[boston]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

Are you looking to get the CDC recommended number of doses or the number of doses required for school entry in your state?

Niether. She won't be fully vaccinated so it doesn't matter if she has what the school wants her to have. I'm doing a philosophical exemption. And I don't particularly trust the CDC so what they recommend isn't my main concern. I just want to know what it takes to make the shot work the best it can. What is ideal, medically speaking.

[Tracy]

I would like some "protection" against Pertussis. It's the only disease that there's a vaccine for that actually worries me. My kid is about to enter a large public school next year.

how old is your youngest child?

[boston]

I have just one. A 5 year old.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by boston

I just want to know what it takes to make the shot work the best it can. What is ideal, medically speaking.

Technically, three doses would be considered "vaccinated." However, as you can see from the number of boosters recommended so close to the primary series in childhood, then shortly thereafter in adolescence and adulthood, this vaccine is not exactly what many would consider to be efficacious.

I really can't answer your question. Truthfully and to put it bluntly - this vax sucks.

[LongIsland]

....

[spero]

Originally Posted by boston

I would like some "protection" against Pertussis. It's the only disease that there's a vaccine for that actually worries me. My kid is about to enter a large public school next year.

My understanding is that pertussis is only a big concern in an infant - when they're too young to get the vax anyway. And there are outbreaks amongst vaxed kids in schools just about every year.

Isn't the Dtap supposed to be one of the most reactive vaccines out there?

That's interesting. My plan with Ruebella is to wait until my daughter hits puberty, and then have her get the vaccine, should she not have natural immunity by then.

Momtezuma Tuatara has an interesting story to tell about rubella, natural immunity, and pgy.

I have given my daughter one vaccine, and that was Tetanus. We live in Maine. It's too possible that she'll be barefoot and get a puncture wound. And the treatment for that is --a tetanus shot. One that is worse (tocicity-wise) than the vaccine. So I got her the vaccine.

You are aware that letting a puncture wound bleed clean kills tetanus, right?

I have to find out how the chickenpox thing works. At what point does chickenpox start becoming more dangerous? That's when I'd want to get her vaccinated, if she's not naturally immune.

I'm not sure I'd say it becomes more dangerous, just harder to deal with.

Yeah, I don't see this as a concern, unless we travel to a place where Polio exists.

If I'm not mistaken, polio still exists right here in the US - right?

[mamakay]

I would like some "protection" against Pertussis. It's the only disease that there's a vaccine for that actually worries me. My kid is about to enter a large public school next year.

You probably want to just look at the seroconversion rate. From what I remember, around 75% of kids seroconvert with the first dose, around 85 % by the second dose, and around 90% with the third.
I'll try to find the DtaP package insert to find out for sure. The tests are done on infants, but it should be about the same for a five year old.

That's interesting. My plan with Ruebella is to wait until my daughter hits puberty, and then have her get the vaccine, should she not have natural immunity by then. I think as adults, women ought to be responsible for their own health during pregnancy, not the children in their community. When I was pregnant I got checked to see if I was immune. I wasn't. Despite being "up to date" on my shots. I still had a healthy baby, thankfully.

Just an FYI...the rate of adverse reactions (weirdo arthritis syndromes) to the Rubella vax are highest in girls who are going through puberty or have already gone through it, so if I had a girl and I was wanting her immune before pregnancy, I'd probably want to get the vax before puberty for that reason. JMO.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by mamakay

You probably want to just look at the seroconversion rate. From what I remember, around 75% of kids seroconvert with the first dose, around 85 % by the second dose, and around 90% with the third.

Are there any seroconversion rates for the fourth and fifth booster doses?

Obviously the seroconversion rates for this vax begin to plummet pretty much as soon as the needle comes out of skin, YKWIM?

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by skellbelle

If I'm not mistaken, polio still exists right here in the US - right?

Only from the OPV vaccine...hasn't been a case of wild polio in the US in over 20 years.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

Are there any seroconversion rates for the fourth and fifth booster doses?

Obviously the seroconversion rates for this vax begin to plummet pretty much as soon as the needle comes out of skin, YKWIM?

I'm having a really hard time finding the seroconversion rates for fewer than 3 doses. Even the package insert only mentions the rate after the 3rd dose.

Weird.

I'll keep looking.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Only from the OPV vaccine...hasn't been a case of wild polio in the US in over 20 years.

that they know of.......no paralytic polio, but 95% of people have polio and never even knew it, it just causes flu like symptoms.

[mamakay]

Haha...I just figured out why they aren't real keen on using seroconversion tests for pertussis vaxes:
They don't know what's going on at all. They don't know which components (the different toxoids, bacterial antigens, etc.) give protection, if some are worthless, etc. They just have no idea, so they put a little bit of everything in there and hope for the best.

So, we're left with placebo controlled trials for efficacy. Here's the best I could find:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3699171

The vaccine efficacy after two doses was 55 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 12 to 78 percent), on the basis of 14 cases in the DTP-toxoids group and 31 in the DT-toxoids group that met the definition of the World Health Organization. Conclusions. A pharmacologically inert, acellular pertussis-toxoid vaccine that is easily standardized is safe and confers substantial protection against pertussis.

The American acellular vaccines are based on the Swedish ones, and there haven't been any placebo controlled trials on ours, but the Swedish trial are used as the expectation basis.
So, 2 doses cuts the risk of pertussis in half. My wild guess is that one dose does about the same thing, and 5 doses probably doesn't bring it up much from there, either. But it looks like nobody's studied what happens with one dose. So who knows?
I have read that 5 doses can bring the efficacy up to as high as 80%.
So maybe the protection goes up 10% with each shot after the second? Or maybe one dose would only provide 40% protection?
I dunno.
It sucks that this hasn't really been figured out in some logical way.

[boston]

Originally Posted by skellbelle

My understanding is that pertussis is only a big concern in an infant - when they're too young to get the vax anyway. And there are outbreaks amongst vaxed kids in schools just about every year.

I think it's still a concern with older kids and some adults. Side note: we have a family member with type 1 Diabetes and I really want to avoid infecting him with Pertussis if we can help it.

Originally Posted by skellbelle

Isn't the Dtap supposed to be one of the most reactive vaccines out there?

Yes. It's pretty nasty. But this chart {http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm} shows that these vaccines at least do not have Mercury in them. I'd like to know where I can find any evidence that the dtap is worse than other thermerisol-free vaccines.

Originally Posted by skellbelle

You are aware that letting a puncture wound bleed clean kills tetanus, right?

That's great but it's not very likely to work for my family. We're too excited by blood.

Originally Posted by skellbelle

I'm not sure I'd say it becomes more dangerous, just harder to deal with.

I know people who've had varicella as adults who've been very sick from it. Hospitalized for a couple weeks in one case. That's certainly harder to deal with!

Originally Posted by skellbelle

If I'm not mistaken, polio still exists right here in the US - right?

No one's reporting being sick from it at least.

[boston]

Originally Posted by mamakay

Just an FYI...the rate of adverse reactions (weirdo arthritis syndromes) to the Rubella vax are highest in girls who are going through puberty or have already gone through it, so if I had a girl and I was wanting her immune before pregnancy, I'd probably want to get the vax before puberty for that reason. JMO.

Thank you for this information. I hadn't heard that before...