I want to start selectively vaxing my 5 year old. - Page 2

[wonderwahine]

Isn't the Dtap supposed to be one of the most reactive vaccines out there?

from what I've read, yes, but i think its more in the newborns/toddler thing than a 5yr old. Its linked to SIDS and other things.

[boston]

Originally Posted by mamakay

I have read that 5 doses can bring the efficacy up to as high as 80%.
So maybe the protection goes up 10% with each shot after the second? Or maybe one dose would only provide 40% protection?

Originally Posted by Immunization Action Coalition

How effective is this vaccine?
In general, inactivated vaccines are not as effective in producing immunity as are live vaccines. In studies of acellular pertussis vaccine, children who received three or four doses were 80%-85% less likely to develop pertussis than unvaccinated children. Immunity appears to last for five to 10 years. Tdap vaccine is believed to be similar in effectiveness and duration of immunity as pediatric DTaP vaccines.

I think I want to aim for 4 doses.

http://www.vaccineinformation.org/pertuss/qandavax.asp

[boston]

Originally Posted by romans_mum

that they know of.......no paralytic polio, but 95% of people have polio and never even knew it, it just causes flu like symptoms.

Do you have a source for this?

[boston]

Originally Posted by romans_mum

from what I've read, yes, but i think its more in the newborns/toddler thing than a 5yr old. Its linked to SIDS and other things.

Right. This is what I learned, too. That's partially why I wanted to wait until my kid was way out of the toddler woods.

[wonderwahine]

that of course doesnt mean its impossible for it to react in an adult.....I guess we will have more reports on that since they are pushing the vax in adults now.

[mamakay]

Just an FYI, the Immunization Action Coalition is a very, very suspect source.
I'm not saying the 85% figure is necessarily wrong, but you might want to check their sources.

Here's a link on why the pertussis vaccine doesn't work very well.
(the bacteria is smarter than our immune systems).
http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/full/68/12/7152

It is becoming clear that B. pertussis bacteria are capable of infecting and proliferating in a large proportion of vaccinated individuals. In one study, 33% of the exposed individuals receiving the highly effective five-component acellular pertussis vaccine had evidence of infection and 24% coughed for 21 days or more (19). In the same study, 82% of individuals receiving a licensed whole-cell vaccine had evidence of infection and 65% coughed for 21 days or more

I really, really don't think the IAC's numbers are right.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by boston

Do you have a source for this?

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/polio.pdf

Up to 95% of all polio infections are inapparent or
asymptomatic. Estimates of the ratio of inapparent to
paralytic illness vary from 50:1 to 1,000:1 (usually 200:1).

Regarding the differences between the 50:1 and 1000:1 ratios, I think it's probably safe to assume that extreme starvation probably pushes people closer to the 50:1 side, and extreme good health pushes you to the 1000:1 side.

[alegna]

Just FYI- I am reactive/ allergic to the tetanus. I think it's more common than people think. Watch for swelling, redness and reduced movement in the limb injected. If there is a reaction, do NOT give more doses. My reactions got worse and worse while they narrowed it down to the tetanus (kept giving it to me....) : :

-Angela

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by mamakay

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/polio.pdf

Also from the Pink Book on polio regarding the remainder of the polio cases:

Approximately 4%–8% of polio infections consist of a minor, nonspecific illness without clinical or laboratory evidence of central nervous system invasion. This clinical presentation is known as abortive poliomyelitis, and is
characterized by complete recovery in less than a week.

Three syndromes observed with this form of poliovirus infection are upper respiratory tract infection (sore throat and fever), gastrointestinal disturbances (nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, constipation or, rarely, diarrhea), and influenza-like illness. These syndromes are indistinguishable
from other viral illnesses.

Fewer than 1% of all polio infections result in flaccid paralysis.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by boston

I know people who've had varicella as adults who've been very sick from it. Hospitalized for a couple weeks in one case. That's certainly harder to deal with!

Complications from varicella happen for a reason. While the adult may appear to be "healthy," they are usually not and most have diagnosed immune system disorders.

Based on CDC varicella surveillance, it is well known that something is usually going on with the immune system of those suffering complications from varicella -- and it's usually cancer, diabetes, asthma, they're on dangerous cortisterioids like Prednisone, for something, etc. Sometimes even the IV drugs used to treat varicella complicate it even further.

While the CDC likes to tout that even "healthy" people suffer complications and death - individuals who suffer complications are not as "healthy" as they think and make them susceptible to complications and secondary infections.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4818a3.htm

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

The first three doses of are the primary doses and anything after that are boosters.

Let me correct that. I was just reading the Pink Book --- three doses are no longer primary. Now the first four doses are considered primary doses.

[Imvishta]

Petussis in adults!

Originally Posted by boston

I would like some "protection" against Pertussis. It's the only disease that there's a vaccine for that actually worries me. My kid is about to enter a large public school next year.

<snip>

I have given my daughter one vaccine, and that was Tetanus. We live in Maine. It's too possible that she'll be barefoot and get a puncture wound. And the treatment for that is --a tetanus shot. One that is worse (tocicity-wise) than the vaccine. So I got her the vaccine.


I have to find out how the chickenpox thing works. At what point does chickenpox start becoming more dangerous? That's when I'd want to get her vaccinated, if she's not naturally immune.

<snip>

Hi there,

I've yet to even introduce myself to this board, as I've been so sick since I signed-up, but looked up pertussis on here and wanted to add a site I found today: http://www.whoopingcough.net/prevent...munization.htm That page is for "Prevention/Immunization," but there are sub-links and other related information on the site. (I hope I am quoting and posting properly here?)

I am forty years old, and I think I have pertussis! I've been coughing terribly for some time now. There was a terrible virus that went around here recently. My son and husband recovered in a reasonable amount of time with only Mullein Ear Drops (garlic) and a lot of TLC. I, however, have not done so well.

My son (18 months) was due for his well baby visit on Tuesday at which time I believe he would have had his final pertussis vaccination. I was so sick I had to cancel his visit. He did react differently (excessive crying) to his first dose of the vaccine, but I did not then realize the inherent dangers with the vaccine. Our doctor is mostly holistic and does give what would be considered "safer" vaccines. But, my recent illness has made me feel pretty strongly about finishing this course of vaccination.

Here I'll just paste in a post I made on my local Mommy's Groups board to explain what is going on for me (hope it's not too much information):

Have any of you heard anything about whooping cough (i.e. pertussis) in Savannah? I have been SO sick and can't quit coughing. It's been horrible, something I've never had before despite years of allergy and sinus problems. On my birthday I went to my doctor who did a chest X-ray and said that I did not have pneumonia, but he would treat me for asthma. He mentioned a nebulizer (I asked [one of the other mothers] and she said that's what [her son] used), but he never gave it to me. Instead he put me on tons of meds: Avelox (antibiotic), guaifenex (decongestant with expectorant), Prednisone (steroid), Hyphed (cough syrup with antihistamine, narcotic, decongestant), Albuterol ("rescue" inhaler) and Advair (preventative steroid inhaler).

He warned me that the Advair has been known to cause death in some users, and that I should not use it more than the twice a day prescribed, as it is not a "rescue" inhaler like the Albuterol. That was Tuesday. I went to the ER this morning as I woke gasping for air and coughing and just couldn't take it anymore. Like my doctor, they took an X-ray, as well. The ER doctor said is it likely that my anxiety over my "asthma" has aggravated the condition. He gave me a Xanax and sent me home. It has not worked.

I told him that at the moment (by the time we got there) I was "okay," but repeatedly have horrible coughing spells to the point of vomiting and complete loss of bladder control. (Yes, for my fortieth birthday I bought myself a nice pack of Poise pads. This is way worse than pregnancy.) And, yes, I am very stressed about it because I can't function, not to mention that I've frequently thrown-up my medication, which means it can't work, but I'm too scared to take another dose. And, I kept asking about this feeling in my throat and chest of breathing in fumes, like the newspaper, which does cause that reaction in me. (I even mentioned to the second nurse that I her perfume was really strong for me, and she said that she wasn’t wearing any; just soap and lotion.)

So, I spent the day in bed. I just came downstairs and check my E-mail and such. I saw on the CNN main page that whooping cough is now becoming an epidemic in Winnetka, Illinois, the Chicago suburb of "Risky Business" fame. I've looked a little online to see about our area, but don't see anything, although there are reports of it occurring in North Carolina. [Since this post I've seen another report of a case in South Carolina.] Most reporting I’ve seen has been from past years. In any case, I found a web site which describes EXACTLY what I've been experiencing, right down the fact that it's so hard to diagnose, because often the patient doesn't have the spasms while in the office. But, all the other parts about the attacks ending with vomiting are just like what I'm having. And, my cough sounds just like the recordings I’ve listened to online.

At this point, I would no longer be contagious, but still symptomatic. They could not do the simple swab test for me, but perhaps a blood test would show the antibodies. Actually, there isn't much to do for it, but everyone who wrote on the site about their experiences with their children or themselves (vaccine can wear off by my age) mentioned the relief they felt at knowing what they had and that it would eventually end. Also, they mentioned that bronchodilators, like I have, really do not work for whooping cough, but possibly the non-steroidal asthma medication Singulair would work. The steroids really raise my blood sugar, and my blood pressure is up again, as well. I spend my entire days coughing, vomiting and pissing myself. Gee, wonder why I might be anxious? I just can not take it, and while I do understand that anxiety can aggravate any medical condition, it just doesn’t explain all of my symptoms. Anyone heard anything about this in our area? It would be such a relief to know what’s wrong and to get the proper treatment if all that I’m doing will not work for what I have. I am just so exhausted...

So, I've now sent an inquiry to the Centers for Disease Control for information regarding reporting of this illness in our area and in the area of Arizona we visited this summer. I have also done some searching online and found that pertussis is making a "comeback" in older adults. Adults over fifty probably never had the vaccine, and adults my age are probably no longer immune. Here is a link to an article from "The New York Times" about adults and pertussis (February 2005): http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/22/he...0e48b2&ei=5070

I would feel terrible if my son had this illness! It is horrible! I've read about adults and children breaking ribs from the force of the cough, which is making my loss of bladder control seem like a minor inconvenience at this point. I had been told I should get a tetanus booster several years ago, but opted not to do so as I'd heard that I'd probably have to have a tetanus shot anyway if injured. However, I will consider a booster for pertussis for myself if it's indicated as I can not go through this again.

I am going to my doctor's clinic tomorrow. While I can no longer be diagnosed by a simple swab test at this point I do intend to ask for the blood test; although it's not entirely conclusive either. The doctor on call today said it sounds like I might have strep (which I thought at the onset of my illness, but my son did not have, so I thought I didn't either) or the flu. Oh, please?! This is not the flu! He sounded just like the doctors described in the site I listed above and others I read today. It's very easy to misdiagnose this illness as the patient does not always present with the symptoms in the office and not all patients have the characteristic "whooping."

I just wanted to pass on what I've found, for whatever it's worth. And, see if anyone had any similar experiences as an adult or with misdiagnoses in either their children or adults? I hope what I've posted can be helpful for those of you making your decision regarding immunization, and in recognizing the symptoms in case you or your families do acquire this illness.

So, regarding the quotes above about tetanus and chicken pox: As I mentioned, I opted out of the tetanus booster as I was told I'd still probably need a tetanus shot if actually injured. Don't know the validity of this statement, but definitely something to consider. And, the chicken pox? That was a typical rite-of-passage in my childhood. Until recently, I did not even know a vaccine existed for CP! I have read about women having CP parties where when one child gets it they all get together with their children so they can all get it over with at the same time. I do remember I had only one friend who'd had it (older siblings) who could visit me at the time. But, everyone had it. You just took oatmeal baths and tried not to scratch. That was it; no big deal. I do recall a friend's father having it and being told that it was dangerous in adults; I think he was hospitalized. As someone posted here, it could be that other factors are involved with adults. Otherwise, really it seemed such a minor problem in society as most everyone had it as a child. (Got some special new jammies for the "occasion" as well! )

I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone can give me on this issue. Should I have made this post in another thread? Or cross-post? I'm not yet sure of the the procedures on Mothering.com.

Thanks so much... Imvishta

[mamakay]

Hi, Imvishta! Welcome!

Yeah, if you want to talk about pertussis in adults, you might want to start a new thread. It's an interesting subject, and deserves it's own discussion.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by mamakay

Hi, Imvishta! Welcome!

Yeah, if you want to talk about pertussis in adults, you might want to start a new thread. It's an interesting subject, and deserves it's own discussion.

Oh definitely . . . and we'll tell you all about the "comeback" that isn't really a comeback.

[Imvishta]

Pertussis in Adults?

Originally Posted by mamakay

Hi, Imvishta! Welcome!

Yeah, if you want to talk about pertussis in adults, you might want to start a new thread. It's an interesting subject, and deserves it's own discussion.

Thanks. Where should I post the thread?

[mamakay]

Probably in the main vaccination forum here:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=47

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by skellbelle

If I'm not mistaken, polio still exists right here in the US - right?

No, polio does not still exist in the US.
http://www.cdc.gov/Nip/diseases/polio/faqs.htm
http://www.emro.who.int/polio/

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by romans_mum

from what I've read, yes, but i think its more in the newborns/toddler thing than a 5yr old. Its linked to SIDS and other things.

It'd be great if when you make a statement like "it's linked to SIDS" you could include a reference/link/information. Thanks!

[reepicheep]

Hi, I am a litle confused- wasn't there an outbreak of polio among the Amish in pennsylvania last year?

[wonderwahine]

not according to the CDC, and if its not documented there, then there was never a diagnosed case.